Narrow keys

Del Vento

Ok, I see we are wandering around with very few piano discussion, let me rectify that.

I know, we've already talked about this quite a lot.... but there is a "news". Now finally they have their semi-production prototypes ready and distributed to a number of people (before it was only to very close friends in no-comment mode). The plan is to start shipments in the early fall. The price seems to be the upper $3000 which is not bad for a custom-made, small-run thing, but extremely hard to justify for what I understand as a semi-weighted controller of unproven quality. Yet, it's the only one of its kind, so if that's what you want/need, at least for an American household is something that you can make the effort to purchase. The texture of the keys looks very weird on the videos (like they are sloppily painted sheet metal, which I'm sure they are not, but I get that impression).

I really hope this will take off, and I may even buy one if/when the price goes down to $1000 or less and the action is proven at least comparable to similarly priced Y/K/R

https://www.narrowkeys.com/post/describing-the-nk5-5-action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMozDMRgYLg

HZPiano

Del Vento let me rectify that.

Yes Please Sir!

🙂

Joannchr

Very interesting. Imho there are more con’s than pro’s for adults if you have been trained on a modern pian The pros are obvious , easier to play 11th or 12th chords and easier octaves playing but the disadvantages are multiple for an adult , starting with less accuracy , specially in fast jumps, more difficulty to play deep in the keyboard , and loss of all memory built years after years when it comes to placing fingers naturally. Whenever you try to play a piece you perform well on a standard modern piano and try to play on a period piano , clavichord or harpsichord , you realise that fingerings needs to be changed , you need to erase all your ´muscle’ memory and adapt to the new instrument and that doesn’t happen overnight. I guess there is still a use case for children’s with tony small hands with very short and slim fingers . The fact of the matter is the most typical shape of adults with short span are fat / small fingers whereby long spans are typically thin/long fingers . But very interesting and good to see to new initiatives.

Del Vento

Joannchr

I never tried these keyboards so I can't say, but there are many pianists who claim this is not a problem at all. Some of them are even unrelated to the people who promote these efforts, so I'm inclined to believe them (including a few who I trust very much and speak in the context of mini-keys as I'm discussing in the other thread)

As far as I'm concerned, I grew extremely tired of playing with muscle memory, so in my current approach to practice I steer relatively clear of that, so it would not be a concern for me.

Joannchr

Joannchr well its not muscle memory in relation to memorising a piece using hands positions ( I agree with you this is weakest form of memorisation) but I was referring to memory of key positions on the piano . If you ask me to a play a c4 to c6 jump , I can pretty much do it with eyes closed without even a need to adjust with neighbours keys . With a fortepiano , I make mistakes because I have to adjust , I also tried to play Goldberg variation 5 on a fortepiano , it is next to impossible if you use standard hand repartition of the piano transcription. Again it is a good idea for kids and adults with specific hand shapes .

SouthPark

If they can make narrow keys, then they can surely also produce wide keys. All relative. Relative to the current 'standard'.

kawafanboi

it makes perfect scientific sense to me. bring it on.

Joannchr

Joannchr for chaps not familiar with fortepianos , they have narrow keys , shorter key dip and have a very light touch . The light touch facilitates playing but narrow keys definitely create challenges with some pieces.

Del Vento

Joannchr well its not muscle memory in relation to memorising a piece using hands positions ( I agree with you this is weakest form of memorisation)

Joannchr If you ask me to a play a c4 to c6 jump , I can pretty much do it with eyes closed without even a need to adjust with neighbours keys

Joannchr With a fortepiano , I make mistakes because I have to adjust

I had this exact conversation with my teacher. He said that yes, you have to adjust but that you can adjust pretty quickly like if you are climbing a staircase: you can easily go one step at the time, or you can go two steps, or you can go three steps (assuming their size matches your body mechanics). Once you've done it, you can easily go without looking because your body "knows". If you go on another staircases with steps of different lengths and heights, of course you cannot do it immediately, but you would learn to do it without looking relatively quickly after the first several attempts done looking. Now with keyboards, there are many more relative positions to be aware of, so it's not immediate, but he claims that the body relatively quickly adjusts and he regularly plays regularly (wide) spaced pianos and keyboards with mini keys. This is consistent to what several testimonials of this association say, that most players adjust in about 30 minutes.

Joannchr it is next to impossible if you use standard hand repartition of the piano transcription

I agree with you on this, namely that with regular repertoire there may be cases where you'd need to change the fingering or even how to divide the notes between hands. I disagree with the fact that's a huge negative, I see it more as a nuisance that one has to adjust to (like a couple of steps that I have in my home which are not of the same height: annoying, but not something causing me to sell the home and move elsewhere).

Joannchr

Del Vento 👍. Anyway the fact that they target a niche market or experiment alternatives is positive and keeps the piano evolution alive . Cheers and good week end .