Curious Vegetable

kawafanboi

After a few documentaries and many hours of online psy-ops.

kawaboi over the last months has officially made an attempt at eating plant-based.

haven't died yet, but maybe soon? 😗

/protein

SouthPark

Just have one of those personal communicator pendants …… just in case! They can aways get 100cc meat injection administered immediately in emergency situations.

SouthPark

I did once try a plant based burger patty …… and I think they did a good job, as I did get the impression I was eating a beef burger. That was good ….. tasted good.

kawafanboi

i tried a few, most taste better than regular beef patties because they're already professionally seasoned.

i liked beyond the most.

i'm trying to order some stuff from asia, because they've had alot of products for a long time due to the popularity of buddism.

Del Vento

I tend to not talk publicly about this because people tend to not understand and attack me in all sorts of way (as somewhat has happened to you in the Roland thread, and often much worse, also in person). I'll make an exception here since it looks like you need some guidance. If anybody disagree with what I write, feel free to ignore it, as I will if you respond to the message in the way that I am now used to 🤣

Since 2016 (or was it '17? don't remember for sure) I follow this almost vegan diet (some fish and extremely small quantities of some cheeses are allowed, some vegetables are not). It sounds somewhat similar to what you are trying to do...

It's not a "diet" per se, despite the title, it's more of a lifestyle. My health has improved in the last 5 years, I've lost 35 pounds (partially also because I run abouit 40km per week) and most importantly no new health conditions have started, unlike the vast majority of my similarly aged friends (I'm 50yo) and my younger brother. It's extremely strongly backed up by science. When I say "extremely strongly" I mean that for every single claim and suggestion there is compelling evidence by dozens of studies attacking the problem from at least 5 totally different points of view with very solid statistics, unlike the typical "newsworthy" thing which is usually based on one or two papers in which they saw 12% improvement on a sample of 73 individuals, but hey, nobody said that before so it's "news". These things are things whose evidence has built up for the last several decades, so they are "olds" rather than "news" and hence don't get the flashy attention they would deserve in a fact-based rather than sensationalist press. The 5 "points of view" are described well in the book, and very sloppily (but better than nothing until you get the book) at
https://lewishowes.com/podcast/the-5-pillars-to-increasing-your-lifespan-aging-in-reverse-with-dr-valter-longo/

Part of the lifestyle includes periodic fasting (which I do once or twice a year as a 7-day water-based fasting, since I find that approach perfect for me, however most people who follow this find easier to do a 5-day fast-mimicking diet and it's still very good). You can hear the guy talking about this part at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LTe32ofHDI

The tl;dr; version is that a long enough fasting (at least 5 days), with possibly a small amount of selected food (the fast-mimicking part), puts your body in a "deep power saving" mode, in which everything that can be shut off is shut off because there's no much energy available. One exception to this is cancerous cells, which ignore pretty much any command to stop multiplying and attempting to grow -- the good news is, since they ignore the "power save" commands, and since there is not enough power available, they basically starve themselves to death, eliminating the chances to grow into a full-fledged cancer. They are now studying the possibility to apply this insight on sick people with very developed tumors.

As I wrote above, if you made it this long and have strong disagreeing feelings, just ignore it, as I will if you respond to it as I am now used to hear 🤣 -- I will respond to sincere questions about my experience with it if there are any

Mrroland

Del Vento

Did you tried the Prolon stuff the book is talking about? In the Netherlands this stuff is quit expensive (€199 for a 5 day cure).

I'm trying to find out if this fasting mimic diet works for me, but the book suggests you should use Prolon during the 5 day fmd…

CyberGene

Del Vento long enough fasting (at least 5 days), with possibly a small amount of selected food (the fast-mimicking part), puts your body in a "deep power saving" mode, in which everything that can be shut off is shut off because there's no much energy available. One exception to this is cancerous cells, which ignore pretty much any command to stop multiplying and attempting to grow -- the good news is, since they ignore the "power save" commands, and since there is not enough power available, they basically starve themselves to death, eliminating the chances to grow into a full-fledged cancer.

BTW, wanted to comment on that. When I started on intermittent fasting (although mine is slightly different, it just requires at least 16 hours of fasting every day rather than an occasional 5-day fasting), I read something that was similar to what you describe. Or maybe different. They described how fasting indeed activates some “power saving” mode of the cells and that there are mechanisms by which weaker cells get destroyed by the organism and are used for energy instead. Now, I haven’t elaborated on that and it may have just been some unfounded speculation. Or maybe I didn’t get it right. Or maybe it’s some bad interpretation of what you describe. Nevertheless it’s an interesting theory that I will research more. The fact is I’ve been in better health since I started fasting. I don’t mean the reduced weight. As I said, I have no problems with my blood sugar and pressure anymore, my Apple Watch reports lowered heart rate at rest. I also sleep better and I seem to need less sleep to feel refreshed.

CyberGene

I’ve been on an intermittent fasting diet for a year now. For the first 6 months I gradually lost 7kg and am now at the ideal weight of 73kg for a BMI of 22. I only eat between 2 PM and 7 PM (started with the 12 PM to 8 PM but quickly learnt to fast, so I shortened the “food allowed” interval). I had slight problems with blood glucose and blood pressure before that diet. Not anymore. And I eat absolutely anything I want, especially desserts since I love sweet!

It’s not about what you eat, only how much and when. And the intermittent fasting would naturally limit your calorie intake.

kawafanboi

CyberGene desserts since I love sweet!

based on my reading on de novo lipogensis, the conversion of sugar into fats in Humans is extremely inefficient. given more calories in terms of sugar, the human body prefers to raise its temperature and increase activity level rather than store the sugar as fats. in a study , lean and chunky women were over-fed 50% more calories than they would normally eat Ontop of 135g of white sugar. It took them nearly 4 months to gain 1 extra pound.

de-novo lipogensis bio-chemically incurs a 30% energy penalty in the conversion process itself. whereas fat-storage is highly direct and only costs 1-3%.

fat-storage is actually so efficient, that if your flabby-stuffs were biopsied, we can still tell what food the fat came from, because our body does not even change the chemical composition of the fat. we can still tell it's fish oil or avocado, or bacon grease.

you guys probably know this by now, but Dr. Atkins famous for his eat only meat and grease diet was a complete fraud, this guy died massively-obese at 250lbs and his family rejected autopsy to determine cause of death, insisted he sliped on ice while walking. In all likelihood, he died of a heart attack or stroke which is why he fell and hit is head.

Pete14

I wonder, what about eating as much and whenever you want, and then burning the excess (calories) at the gym, could that approach work, too?

CyberGene

Pete14 sure! But I hate to exercise 😀

Drew-r

Pete14

There is no definite answer because there are factors/variables, to include age and heredity, and exceptions such as professional athletes.

The quick answer is, men and women into ( or beyond) middle age generally cannot get away with eating whatever they want, even on an intermittent-diet, and avoid weight gain by “burning off the calories with exercise”. May be CG has a hereditary edge on his side that allows his metabolism to avoid weight gain despite eating sweets. Aside from such an edge, older people will not lose weight so long as they regularly eat/drink foods (anything with real or fake sugars/carbs), no matter how many hours they exercise.

I started experimenting with IF after learning about the Keto diet. It works for me but when im on it, i eat no sweets, limit carbs to about 60 grams a day. This means i must avoid many fruits. One of the reasons i take breaks on Keto diet is to enjoy seasonal fruits.

kawafanboi

Drew-r

based on the material i've read so far,

the middle ages, the average population ate very little meat if at all. the idea that the further back we go the more meat people ate is not accurate. even in america, it wasn't until post ww2 that meat became the meal itself.

as for old people not losing weight, this has alot to do with the % of calories from fat that they eat. the human body stores fat extremely efficiently, while it almost refuses to store sugar.

kawafanboi the human body prefers to raise its temperature and increase activity level rather than store the sugar as fats. in a study , lean and chunky women were over-fed 50% more calories than they would normally eat Ontop of 135g of white sugar. It took them nearly 4 months to gain 1 extra pound. "de-novo lipogensis"

CyberGene

I feel much better when I eat carbohydrates such as pizza, pasta and risotto, together with fats such as olive oil, compared to protein-rich diets. I’ve tried living on lean meat with vegetables and after a week I felt lifeless with no energy and no motivation for anything. Quite on the contrary, carbohydrates make me feel like a well functioning machine. Needless to say fast carbohydrates like sugar (desserts and sweets) give me an instantaneous cognitive boost whenever I need it at work or even at the piano. I think my brain just asks for sugars when it needs to work out.

kawafanboi

CyberGene

the brain can only run on glucose, it does not burn anything else.

the only exception is ketogenesis which is not a normal condition for the body to be in. it only occurs naturally during Starvation and Extreme sickness (like cancer /severe bodily trauma). in ketogensis the body switches to ketones, which the brain will run on, but does not prefer, brain-fog and cognitive decline is common.

Del Vento

CyberGene

In fact what you do has similarities to what I do -- just that I carry things to the extreme, as navindra noticed in the other thread. In both cases for reasons, not "just because", so you might want to get that book (it's available translated in other languages if you so prefer), even if just for curiosity.

Del Vento

Mrroland Did you tried the Prolon stuff the book is talking about?

Yes I did and it's good, but as you say it's very expensive. Plus, if you want to do that during a time in which you are going to work or otherwise are not at home, it's also logistically complicated. Hence, I am now opting for a water fast instead, which gives me back also the time to prepare and eat the meals, which makes me more available for example to meet people who are eating at different times. Obviously not everybody can cope fine with water fast for 5-7 days, but I do.

If you want to do the FMD without purchasing ProLon, you certainly may, but need to be very careful with lots of things. First of all, the total calories intake (which is hard to estimate exactly) and second what you are eating, exactly. For example, during the FMD you can eat 6 (IIRC) olives per day. But olives are always treated and contain additional things. Some of those things, even in traces, will re-activate the non-fasting pathways in your body. Therefore, you'd have to make sure that the ones you are buying have been treated in a way that do not add any "forbidden" food. This information is very hard to get.

If you already know that you can cope fine with water fast for at least 3 days, I suggest going that way (the first 2 days are the hardest), after checking with your doctor, of course (!!!!!). If you don't know, but your doctor still approves then you can try water fasting and see how it goes. If that does not work for you I suggest that instead you spring once for ProLon, and see how it goes with that. If that one time goes super easy, and you still feel it's too expensive (I do) but also can't cope with the water fasting, then you can try the DIY for the FMD, but as I said it's complicated.

Hope this helps!

Del Vento

CyberGene I read something that was similar to what you describe. Or maybe different.

There are indeed many similarities. The most important difference is that the most anti-cancer effects (and some other rejuvenation ones) start to trigger after the 3rd day and for the general public 5 days is the best tradeoff between side effects and benefits (I can go fine to 7 day without side effects and so I do).

CyberGene at least 16 hours of fasting every day

I tried that too, but I found more challenging from a logistical point of view because often eating is a social thing (and I'm already anti-social, if I even skip the communal meals, I'd better quit my job, divorce my family and go in a monastery with other hermits, to be seen only once a week at Mass -- by the way being an hermit monk was one of my "dream jobs" as a kid, believe it or not)

CyberGene

Del Vento I found more challenging from a logistical point of view because often eating is a social thing

That’s my everyday struggle. My wife and my daughter tend to dine late, often after 8 PM and I’m very obsessive when I observe something, in this case my fasting, so we rarely dine together lately which is a regular point for arguments…

Del Vento

CyberGene That’s my everyday struggle. My wife and my daughter tend to dine late, often after 8 PM and I’m very obsessive when I observe something, in this case my fasting, so we rarely dine together lately which is a regular point for arguments…

Well, then try the other approach (weeklong water fast) and see if it works equally well for you. Maybe it's easier to find a week or two each year in which they are gone or in which they'd tolerate you not eating at all (e.g. lent)

David B

I've been practicing 16/8 intermittent fasting for the last 7 years. 16 hours between my last meal and the first meal of the day. I eat two meals a day in the span of eight hours. I love exercising (in the morning) right before my first meal (at the end of the 16 hour fast) when human growth hormones are at the highest level. Fasting enhances natural cellular regenerative capacity which unfortunately declines as we get older (Cancer).

I also follow the 8 natural laws of of health based on the Book Ministry of Healing.

Nutrition (Plant based organic)
Exercise
Water (no sodas, coffee, teas (no caffeine/sugar)
Sunlight
Temperance
Air
Rest (good sleep)
Trust in God

God Bless,
David

kawafanboi

i think alot of youngsters have a problem with god. and that really just comes down to a distrust of human organized religion which of course is a scam.

however, if we remove the human element, the agnostic-type god is quite scientific, any large enough entity that possess interconnects between distant nodes is a consciousness onto itself.

Human Christianity is for sure rotten, but an Agnostic-God can run parallel to objective science and they're fully compatible.

David B

kawafanboi Human Christianity is for sure rotten

The historic Jesus was human and I'm not sure of any reasonable people accusing him of being rotten. Some might disagree with his divine claims, but his deeds are a monument and his life an inspiration to believers and nonbelievers alike.

God Bless,
David