VI Labs: Modern U Review

David B

Here is a thread dedicated to my second favorite sampled library. Here is my current favorite. This is a review I had originally posted on PW back when the Modern U came out.

I'm very happy with the latest offering from VI Labs, the Modern U. I think it's their best work yet. I have all of VI Labs offerings, and the Modern U is my favorite. Here is a short video review I made highlighting a few of the reasons why I like it.

https://youtu.be/phV9XUJSjQU

God Bless,
David

HZPiano

Hello,

vagfilm I really want to try the Modern U, but don't want to pay for something and then miss the deep bass notes...

As laid out in the

David B Modern U

thread, I have a setup (software settings as well as amplification and speakers) that gives a lovely full-bodied piano sound.

The sound is/feels very authentic, including the bass register. So that is how it is: authentic bass such as how you'd find it on a taller quality upright. When 'blooming' the bass with the pedal down, my concrete floor vibrates to match. Upright piano bass however is different from a 9'-er grand piano. In this light you may not get the bass that suits your taste, yet it is exactly as it should be.

Last week I encountered (in a charity shop) an old, German tall upright -- keys stuck, the inside dusty, dirty and perhaps even moldy. I played it for some time, making use of what keys were still playable. To my surprise, its tone was clear, round, articulated, and beautiful -- much better than many uprights we usually come across. It was so nice that I recognized a remarkable resemblance to the tone I get from Modern U. I felt right at home.

So the other way round, that is how well Modern U is done. It gives me the piano that currently I can't have other(acoustic)wise.

Cheers and happy considering,

HZPiano

Hello,

vagfilm, I am also curious to @johanibraaten's reasons for disliking it.

As for playability, I just finished another practise session on mine, and all that went wrong is down to me -- not the Modern U 🤭.

As for the sound -- if you don't like the general upright timbre (if there is any such thing!) then don't bother with either the VSL upright or Modern U.

I'd say listen once more to

David B Modern U

David's review video. If that sound isn't to your liking, just discard the whole idea. If it still interests you after that, go get it?!

Cheers and happy research,

EB5AGV

Hi David,

We agree also on this one!. For me, it sounds close to my real Yamaha U3 and that helps to enjoy it even more 🤩

I wish my playing was better to be able to publish a video 😅

David B

EB5AGV Hi David,

We agree also on this one!. For me, it sounds close to my real Yamaha U3 and that helps to enjoy it even more 🤩

That's great to hear. The Modern U seems to have the most realistic acoustic sound giving the allusion of sitting behind a real piano. The realism actually translates more viscerally in person than in recordings.

EB5AGV I wish my playing was better to be able to publish a video 😅

Don't worry about it. Just go for it. Keep recording until you get the version you like the best and then upload it. Thant's what I do. 😀

God Bless,
David

CyberGene

David B The Modern U seems to have the most realistic acoustic sound giving the allusion of sitting behind a real piano.

That makes me want it so badly! 🤤Was it David Lai who praised it too? (I invited him but he’s not responding, might be busy)

EB5AGV

CyberGene That makes me want it so badly! 🤤Was it David Lai who praised it too? (I invited him but he’s not responding, might be busy)

Yes, David likes it quite a lot. BTW I hope he comes here soon!

TomLC

It’s my favorite for practicing. Of course it sounds like an upright. So YMMV.

David B

Here is another song showcasing the wonderful Modern U. It's an older recording, but it reflects the punch and clarity of the Modern U samples.

https://youtu.be/ucLa9xWxpkU

God Bless,
David

Tyr

I never get the Modern U that punchy. Any tips?

David B

Tyr The settings are pretty much the same as in my review video. I sometimes experiment with different reverbs, but my mic selection stays the same. The velocity curve and gain curve I've adjusted more since the review video, but that's more to synchronize it with my N1X.

There is a built-in preset I use for the gain response touch curve that might make a difference if you try it. I'm not going to have access to my computer/Modern U for a few days, so I won't be able to see which preset it was, but I'll let you know when I can.

Try running through the gain touch curve presets and see if any of them make the kind of difference you're looking for. It's one of the presets that boosts bass and midrange a bit.

God Bless,
David

HZPiano

Hello,

A huge Modern U fan here as well -- as authenticity is my main criterium, for wanting an acoustic instrument to learn and study on but not being able to actually have one, Modern U has made me utterly happy. It was @David B who put me on its track.

Here are my favorite settings:

- Mic 1: KM184, 0dB

- Mic 2: PM40, 0dB

- Mic 3: MA200, 0dB (or a little less, to taste)

- Release volume 0dB

- Key noise +6dB

- Silent strike +6dB

- Sympathetic resonance 0dB

- Sympathetic polyphony 40

- Pedal resonance 0dB

- Pedal noise -3dB

- True pedal action On

- Repedal On

- Repetition strikes On

- Stereo width 0%

- Tone 0.0

- Timbre shift 0

- Pedal CCs As required

- Polyphony Def

- Half pedal On, min/max as required

- Soft/Sordino/Muted strikes as required

- Reverb Off (Alt: Wood Room dry 100 wet 10)

- EQ Off

- Midi response Bend -0.21

- Gain response Bend +0.21, Minimum gain 0.00

- Tuning preset Equal temperament with defaults only

- No UVI Workstation effects

- Set the volume in the UVI Multi\Mixer tab as required but no higher than -6dB to prevent clipping distortion.

Inspired by the microphone pairs used in sampling Modern U, I play Modern U through two instances in the UVI player. One goes through my 'upper' amplifier to two speakers L/R on stands at ear level; the other goes to my 'lower' amplifier to four speakers L+L/R+R below the piano. Together, all of this sort-of resembles the sound production of an upright piano.

The upper instance plays mainly the mics 1 and 2 (see above) resembling the strings/details of the sound; the lower instance plays the mic 3 (see above) resembling the soundboard/body of the sound and some pedal noises.

Boy, this is a joy to play.

Cheers and happy playing,

David B

HZPiano Here are my favorite settings:

Mic 1: KM184, 0dB

Mic 2: PM40, 0dB

Mic 3: MA200, 0dB (or a little less, to taste)

That's interesting you have both close mics KM184/PM40 in your settings. I'm going to give that a try when I get home. I've been away for a few weeks working, but I will be back home later today.

HZPiano Inspired by the microphone pairs used in sampling Modern U, I play Modern U through two instances in the UVI player.

That's also interesting how you separate the two instances between the different speakers. I'm going to try that also with the two close mics going through my monitors and the soundboard mics through my N1X internal speakers. I think I can make it work with my mixer setup.

Thanks for the detailed post on your settings. It's great to see you here. I'm looking forward to experimenting when I get home.

God Bless,
David

HZPiano

Hello,

I've been toying with such ideas. I even contemplated using a soundboard from a written-off piano and mounting transducers on it in strategical places (e.g. bridge locations where normally the strings would excite the soundboard).

To get closer to the upright sound field feeling, I installed six bookshelf-type Wharfedale speakers fed by four channels (through two stereo Onkyo amplifiers). I described this setup in the Modern U thread:

HZPiano A huge Modern U fan here as well

This works so well and enjoyable already, that for some time to come I don't see myself toying with a transducer project. However interesting it may be!

Cheers and lovely sound fields,

HZPiano

johanibraaten higher mids and the treble is a bit harsh

Hello,

May I suggest trying my settings, as found here:

HZPiano authenticity is my main criterium

In the beginning, I also wasn't completely happy with the velocity response, the same way as you describe. In particular after playing some real uprights, where I discovered that the lower and mid velocities were a more prominent part of the range than I got at home with Modern U.

The posted settings (see the texts and graphics in that thread) are a result of that experience, in particular the adjustments of the two 'bend' knobs. Meanwhile, I have gone even one or two steps further (away from zero/center) in those two adjustments.

The result is much to my liking. Two weeks ago I met another (old but lovely) upright piano, and this time touch and tone made me right at home from what I am used to behind Modern U.

Last but not least, keep in mind that upright pianos, or the simulation thereof, should have a somewhat smaller dynamic than midsize and concert grands. They are rather different entities.

Cheers and happy experiments,

HZPiano

HZPiano Inspired by the microphone pairs used in sampling Modern U…

Hi @johanibraaten, I'd say neither you nor Modern U is faulty 😉.

I probably used hazy 🌥️ terms -- follow the link and read from that sentence onwards to see what I tried to refer to.

Cheers and happy experimenting,

HZPiano

Hello,

MalcolmH, Sorry to read you're struggling with Modern U. As vagfilm said, it is a sampled upright piano which of course differs considerably from the more usual Grand libraries. A big fat Grand has bass!! which an upright piano just has not. It just physically can't. And the dynamics are altogether different as well.

I play Modern U daily and when I come across real life tall uprights (if they are good ones) I feel right at home, that's how realistic it is.

Quite early in this thread I wrote several posts outlining how I set things up, maybe some help can be found there:

HZPiano Modern U fan here as well

Cheers and good luck,

HZPiano

Hello,

Added to the above:

The volume dials on both amplifiers are at about 1/3 of their scale. In the UVI Multi\Mixer tab, I diversify both volumes to reach the same SPL at the player's ears. So in my case:

- The upper volume is at -12.50 dB

- The lower volume is at -6.00 dB

I measured and set these volumes separately (both at player's ear level) to reach 77--78 dB at level 127 velocities.

Boy, this is a joy to play.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZPiano

Hello,

David B Safe journey home, have fun!

Cheers,

vagfilm

HZPiano: at "PianoClack realm of wonderful greatness", posting pictures is a breeze… You can take a screenshot of your Modern U settings, and just paste it while writing. No upload of anything… Try it.

HZPiano

Hello,

vagfilm at "PianoClack realm of wonderful greatness", posting pictures is a breeze… You can take a screenshot of your Modern U settings, and just paste it

Ok, so following that cue 😄 (and please refer to my previous two messages in this thread, in particular where the numerical values of settings are not visible in the images):

'Part 1' refers to my upper amp and speakers (EQ is off, so not visible here):

'Part 2' refers to my lower amp and speakers (EQ is off, so not visible here):

And here is how they come together in the UVI player's \Multi\Mixer tab:

The \Multi\Settings tab routes both instances to the correct output channels. This depends on the audio device/audio interface you use. (In my case, a PreSonus Studio 68c):

Both instances use the same MIDI settings (I only use the 'bend' knobs):

And both instances use the default tuning/temperament settings:

Again, if needed please refer to my above two posts for background and explicit textual values.

If you can only use one stereo channel (e.g. one amplifier with one speaker pair, one pair of active monitors, or only the line-in of one 😆 digital piano), just merge/combine the 'Part 1' and 'Part 2' settings. Such a situation is reflected in my two posts above, where the settings in text can be found (which do not distinguish between an 'upper' and 'lower' part).

Cheers and happy experimenting,

vagfilm

I should have written "PianoClack realm of graphic easyness"...

HZPiano

vagfilm Yep, so here it is. Had been planning to share all of this on PW for months already, but was held back by things getting too cumbersome. Glad to have the chance now, hope some people can have nice results with this as well.

Cheers and happy fiddling,

vagfilm

There is something about the low resonance of the bass notes of uprights (perfectly captured by Modern U) that makes me prefer the grand VSTs... Since everyone praises VILabs newer releases, and Ravenscroft gets mixed reviews in tone, I will wait for a future grand from VILabs before jumping in...

TomLC

If VILabs brings out a Steinway, NY or German, I will have to buy it. 🤓

vagfilm

Well... I just bought VSL d274, and have Garritan CFX, so I am rooting for anything else...

David B

vagfilm Well... I just bought VSL d274

Start a thread and let us know how you like it. I think there is a short return window if you decide it's not for you. Then you can try and Bösendorfer Imperial. 😀

God Bless,
David