Pianoteq 8 - Hands On: Ant. Petrof 275 + MIDI Visualizer

navindra

I've been on a quest to create a non-boring piano recording. It's generally obvious what works in the more viral videos. I ain't got it, but it hasn't stopped me from various experimentation both from audio and video perspectives.

https://youtu.be/zVZKUhSUaIk

So this time I took some inspiration from Rousseau and the help of some good folks at PW. Plus, the use of some free software by the amazing Simon Rodriguez.

And of course, there's a ton going on with Pianoteq 8 here, musically.

Fixed opinions aside, I'm loving Pianoteq 8. It's got that bass, @Pete14.

Del Vento

CyberGene I’d give one kidney to have perfect pitch…

C'mon of all things that you may get for selling that kidney you'd choose…. perfect pitch? I always though it was useless and I could argue why, but instead let me tell that I know a couple of people who have it (one is a piano teacher) and at best is useless, at worse it drives them mad. For example, if a piano is perfectly tuned with itself, but say a quarter of semitone flat, or maybe even a full semitone flat because it's been tuned like that by a technician to compensate for slipping pins…. She really can't enjoy the music. In fact she's glad that now with age she is slowly losing it!!!!

navindra I've been on a quest to create a non-boring piano recording.

I like the video, and the cinematographic way you did the cuts, the zooming etc. It would be nice if you could do tracking shots, but I know that's a lot of work (if you really want to take on, try a DIY with the MISUMI stuff, but I digress).

With regard to the falling notes…. Impressive how you did it by superimposing them on the fallboard (rather than the crappy way with a fixed animation that everybody appears to be doing in YT). Yet….. In general I find them useless, often distracting or annoying. Only very rarely I find them useful, for example if I were watching your technique and wanted to check how soon you moved your hand in a large jump and I did not know the song well enough… But then I am misanthropist and seasonally grumpy, so apologize if that sounds disrespectful. Let me instead simply ask: what's the point? Just cosmetics of the video or are they "something"?

HZPiano

QuasiUnaFantasia That should attract rather a lot of viewers. Maybe a StarTrek "Borg" theme ... 😄

Indeed! Resistance is Futile!!

navindra a quest to create a non-boring piano recording.

Thumbs up for your creativity, @navindra !

Cheers and happy(???) assimilation,

CyberGene

I hear some pure(er) intervals. I guess that’s not an equal temperament you use?

Other than that, it’s an unorthodox video and production, so it’s definitely catchier than usual 😉

navindra

CyberGene Indeed, you always amaze me with your levels of perception when it comes to piano. What does it take to achieve this level of piano-fu? Is this common? 🤷‍♂️

This is Kirnberger III temperament.

The next reveal is that the piano is not actually in equal temperament, but tuned to Kirnberger III. This is a risky choice on the part of the performer, though perhaps, the stakes are not so high. Sarah McLachlan famously recorded Last Dance on a random out-of-tune upright piano per the legendary Pierre Marchard, but here, the virtual piano has been very deliberately configured with a historical tuning employing technology that did not exist in 1997.

CyberGene

navindra thank you but I think my aural skills are mostly towards hearing sounds rather than music tones 😕 I mean, I’m worse than average if I have to replay a melody I heard, needless to say I have no perfect pitch but I’m not good with relative pitch either. Which is why my ears (brain?) compensates with being OCD-ed with timbral/frequency/interval stuff which frankly isn’t very helpful in anything. Could also explain why I’m bothered by Pianoteq… But definitely I’m not a good piano ear. I’d give one kidney to have perfect pitch…

David B

Cool! What are the falling Synthesia type lights? Did you add that post recording? Thanks for sharing.

God Bless,
David

navindra

David B Thanks! Yes, definitely added this post recording. I used Final Cut Pro and MIDI Visualizer. The software just amazes me sometimes... that I can just sit back and do this on my laptop.

navindra

Del Vento I like the video, and the cinematographic way you did the cuts, the zooming etc. It would be nice if you could do tracking shots, but I know that's a lot of work (if you really want to take on, try a DIY with the MISUMI stuff, but I digress).

Thank you! I will admit that I've considered that idea many times. I've generally concluded that it would be way too much trouble and work for a 1-person job. I also suspect that the equipment would be heavy, bulky, and dangerous to a klutz such as myself.

Overall, too much cognitive load for me to handle on my own in addition to the performance itself.

Del Vento In general I find them useless, often distracting or annoying. Only very rarely I find them useful, for example if I were watching your technique and wanted to check how soon you moved your hand in a large jump and I did not know the song well enough… But then I am misanthropist and seasonally grumpy, so apologize if that sounds disrespectful.

You always put deep consideration into every you say and do, so I welcome your thoughts. 🙂

I also happen to agree with you on this, particularly regarding the popular implementation of the idea.

Del Vento Let me instead simply ask: what's the point? Just cosmetics of the video or are they "something"?

It's an experiment to see what works but it could be "something" based on independent evidence.

Example: I compared the success of Peter Bence with that of Rousseau on YouTube.

Peter Bence is what I would consider at the pinnacle of legitimately entertaining piano recordings. On the other hand, Rousseau is quite formulaic and I cannot bring myself to watch these videos.

Rousseau is more successful than Peter Bence on YouTube by an order of magnitude.

It all comes down to a natural human fascination with lights, lighting, and movement.

If I could entertain like Peter Bence, I would. Instead, I seek to provide something authentic and unique to the best of my abilities... but I don't want to bore the audience. That last bit is a tough nut to crack, hence the inspiration from Rousseau.

It's just a risk to take even though it's not everyone's cup of tea.

And come on, I at least attempted to integrate the visualizations into a real video of a real performance without any compromise. 🙂

Del Vento

navindra It all comes down to a natural human fascination with lights, lighting, and movement.

I see. Interesting.

navindra Rousseau is more successful than Peter Bence on YouTube by an order of magnitude.

Got it. Both are uninteresting to me. The only successful YouTuber which I (very rarely) watch is Veritasium, everyone else I care for has at most hundreds of viewers.

CyberGene QuasiUnaFantasia But maybe the viewers would get seasick.

I think I have once watched such a video and indeed it was unbearable 😀

A gimbal is a must for such a setup, and also some additional post-processing to further reduce movement and even simply avoiding some parts. I think the real problem with all of that (which in part is evident in the most popular application of the technique: extreme mountain biking) is that the camera would be too high or too low on your head, unless you can bear to build and wear something that goes in front of your eyes. Now there is also the "how would you look with that stuff in your head" since to make it interesting you must have different cinematographic cuts from other angles. Perhaps if one can make to look himself like a cyborg…. But what do I know, given my disinterest for YT?

QuasiUnaFantasia

Just a thought ... a camera worn on the forehead, thus always pointing in the same direction the players face is. Now that would make for personalized videos. But maybe the viewers would get seasick.

CyberGene

QuasiUnaFantasia But maybe the viewers would get seasick.

I think I have once watched such a video and indeed it was unbearable 😀

QuasiUnaFantasia

Del Vento Perhaps if one can make to look himself like a cyborg….

That should attract rather a lot of viewers. Maybe a StarTrek "Borg" theme ... 😄 That would be perfect for Bach!!

[Note to self: must respect other's love of Bach, must respect other's love of Bach, yes I know it's hard, still, must respect other's love of Bach 😉].

navindra

Del Vento Veritasium, everyone else I care for has at most hundreds of viewers.

Are these piano videos? If you could share some links to your "ideal" piano video recording, that would be great.

HZPiano Thumbs up for your creativity, @navindra !

Thank you! 🙂

Del Vento

navindra Del Vento Veritasium, everyone else I care for has at most hundreds of viewers.

Are these piano videos? If you could share some links to your "ideal" piano video recording, that would be great.

Veritasium is science popularization. The most piano-related topic that he covered (not that I follow him, so he might have others, because he is extremely prolific) is this one, relevant for virtual instruments only, of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmgFG7PUHfo

Among piano, the most famous one is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChw5_uKK4gy-w8yzyTHLq1A

Then I watch our own

https://www.youtube.com/@gzpiano88

and (of course!)

https://www.youtube.com/@CyberGene

And other ones from forum members such as you and @David B when you post them here or in one of the several competing forums 😉

Then I am attracted to more obscure players such as

https://www.youtube.com/@yakoperlov9107

https://www.youtube.com/@bigsabueso123

https://www.youtube.com/@HsingayHsu

https://www.youtube.com/@BoulderBachFestival

I had a few more, but they started doing things that I did not care and when I checked back their subscribers had skyrocketed. So I guess the number of subscribers is very much related to the inverse of my interest. I guess two exceptions are

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD7QUSiWc7QBP2XGRMGwjEg

and

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUDuYNcBaYkBgWikXvdZCw

If you care about non-piano keyboards here are a few more

https://www.youtube.com/@lucianozecca904

https://www.youtube.com/@musikraum_musicspace

https://www.youtube.com/@RichardAuber

Long list, but don't think now that I watch them regularly, in fact I don't as we discussed elsewhere wrt my dislike for the way they manage YT. I don't care if these people post or not, I just occasionally check them out.

The only one I wished had done more videos (or papers or related work on this topic) is this guy -- which my understanding is that he doesn't own the channel, he was just a "passerby" of that lab and posted his work in a handful of videos and a dissertation: then everything moved on to other non-piano topics 🙁

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCY6hRhjNpo

Ah, speaking of technicians, I also occasionally watch

https://www.youtube.com/@insidepianos367

(I picked the latter just by accident of history, there are many more who might be better, including Emery mentioned above)

navindra

Del Vento Thank you for this long list! I will go through these videos and evaluate which ones make the best use of tracking shots and such. Hopefully I can glean some ideas from these.

One defense or mitigating factor as I imagine it in my case, is that effectively I'm simulating a piano roll -- an idea that fits in well, traditionally, with a piano -- even if we drop the idea of "flashing lights".

Re: Veritasium, I'm already subscribed to it. The YouTube algorithm is shocking. We could well be in the same filter bubbles.

navindra

Del Vento I reviewed quite a few of these, thank you! Some definitely have good ideas.

Ironically, the Veritasium video makes the point that if Gauss had made his discovery of FFT more accessible instead of so obscure, he might have changed the course of human history.

Sort of like publishing on YouTube vs Vimeo? 😃

Del Vento

navindra Del Vento I reviewed quite a few of these, thank you! Some definitely have good ideas.

You are welcome.

navindra Ironically, the Veritasium video makes the point that if Gauss had made his discovery of FFT more accessible instead of so obscure,

navindra Sort of like publishing on YouTube vs Vimeo?

I don't think that was the point, actually perhaps quite the contrary. The Gauss discovery of FFT was too ahead of its time, and more of a curiosity than something useful in practice at that time. Something akin to somebody discovering a seminal quantum computing algorithms in the 70s, well before Richard Feynman made the idea of a quantum computer "popular" (if we can say so of a still obscure thing at the border between physics and computer science) in the 90s. Placing these ideas on a popular platform would just bury them even deeper in the noise of the stuff the crowd looks for. Recognizing them as important in the first place would be key (which Gauss didn't), and then making them available somewhere in a way that they would be prominent for the ones who could understand their potential would be the second step. Clearly an elite-among-the-elite for the Gauss discovery, not the masses that YT caters to. So maybe even something more specialistic than Vimeo!

navindra

In some nice news, I'm thrilled to see that my video made the list of 12 finalists in the Modartt Video Contest 2022! A few folks around here submitted videos as well.

It's open for voting, you get to pick 3 of your favorites to submit a vote.

David B

navindra I voted for you.

God Bless,
David

HZPiano

navindra submit a vote

Voted for you!

Without having seen/heard any of the other entries though 😲, which is rather untypical of me.

Cheers and happy voting results,

navindra

David B That's very kind of you, thank you! 🙂