Sympathetic Resonance Examples

dore_m

I usually just like to read some of the banter around here, but seeing as there has been less traffic lately, maybe someone can make some suggestions for me:

In my quest to model sympathetic resonance, I'll probably need some example pieces to illustrate. Can anyone make some suggestions on real world compositions that would highlight SR?

CyberGene

dore_m do you mean the string resonance of the held keys, not the damper resonance? If that's the case I will think of a piece but honestly I always found this to be absolutely insignificant effect. I've even switched it off on my Roland RD-700SX since it led to audible artifacts.

navindra

CyberGene Wait, what? 😮

dore_m Prelude in C major, BWV 846. They say to play this without the sustain pedal, so it's all in the fingers.

With sympathetic resonance: Alive
Without sympathetic resonance: Dead.

(Oops, I didn't notice QuasiUnaFantasia called this one out already.)

dore_m

yes, the string resonance on held keys.

Interesting that you think it's insignificant. You might be right, and that may be why I have such a difficult time understanding how to highlight it. An interesting coding challenge for me nonetheless.

Even if the effect is not significant, I think it will help me anyway: even the slightest change in overtones due to the string resonance will help with feeling more "randomness" out of the samples. I don't know. It's worth a try.

QuasiUnaFantasia

The first movement of the Moonlight sonata mostly has octaves held in the left hand, while an arpeggio is played in the right hand. It's also mostly played rather slowly, so there will be a lot of sound to analyze.
Of course, it is supposed to be played with constant full pedal ...

The first prelude from Bach's WTC 1 (BWV 846) has no pedal, and the bass note held while other stuff happens.

CyberGene

navindra well, in the WTC prelude you have to play really slow to lose the energy of the first two notes and then excite them by the right hand arpeggio. Besides, I’ve always played that Prelude with the sustain pedal 😀 I know some purists would find using pedal on Bach sacrilegious but then why do they play it on the piano? I’m of the opinion if one plays Bach on a modern piano, then use all the capabilities of the modern piano to make it sound smoother, richer and whatever floats one’s boat 🤓

navindra

CyberGene Probably they just mean don't over pedal... some pedal is fine, but you can pull off more variations (please don't do it the Glenn Gould way) if you go more sparingly with the pedal.

dore_m I think you've got the creds and more to flame Pianoteq as much as you want... this is a bit different from posturing with no output. 🙂

Pianoteq's been a tool for inspiration for me. Ironically, few criticize Pianoteq directly with my recordings... often, the piano sound is the thing that gets complimented the most.

I also have a couple of Kawai engines on my piano. One supports sympathetic resonance and the other doesn't. I still hear the difference there, so the difference is not a Pianoteq thing, in my opinion.

dore_m

@navindra Yup, those are good ones.

You know, I'm not a big pianoteq fan, other than that I do recognize the playability is unparalleled. I just played with the demo a bit and the SR is especially pronounced. PTQ is especially 'dead' without the SR, so the difference when adding SR is really noticeable.

Hope I'm not flaming PTQ too much (ala @MacMacMac )

MacMacMac

dore_m Hope I'm not flaming PTQ too much

There is no such thing as flaming PTQ too much! 😁

dore_m

@navindra What's interesting about PTQ is that the SR setting (at least the preset I was playing with) was in the middle by default. I could then turn them up, which was too resonant, or turn down/off, which was really dead.

This implies to me that recorded samples have some SR built in, even though the other strings are damped. PTQ just has the unique ability to turn them off entirely. Maybe that's why it's harder to discern (for me) with a sampled instrument.

Frédéric L

Note that some scores have silent notes indicated by a diamond figure : the key must be pressed but not produce a song directly.

I can’t remember an example.

Frédéric L

You may flame Pianoteq too much… just try to flame it more than MacMacMac does !