VSL Steinway Concert D-274 (I Love It!)

David B

This is the second time I’ve owned VSL’s Concert D (I’ll buy it officially before the demo license expires). The 1st time I purchased it I sold it because I found it to be too harsh and aggressive. However, that was before the velocity curve editor update in Synchron Pianos. Now with the proper velocity curve for my N1X, this sample library rocks. It’s definitely the best (for me) in VSL’s lineup. I’ve been using VSL’s Bosendorfer Imperial faithfully since it came out, but the D-274 has a whole other range that the BI doesn’t have.

The D-274 has a beautiful low volume timbre that’s not in the BI. I feel like I have more colors on my pallet to choose from. It inspires me to focus more on dynamics. And, it shifts nicely from that low end delicate tone to a full bodied, powerful, concert grand sound. I'm very happy with it and I see myself using it full-time going forward. Here are a few tidbits which show the timbre shift and dynamic expression. Listen with good headphones if you got ‘em.

https://youtu.be/F3NqV7buO5k

God Bless,
David

eddiepiano

Thank you for your impressions and your video. It really captures the beautiful sound of the Steinway.

David B The D-274 has a beautiful low volume timbre that’s not in the BI. I feel like I have more colors on my pallet to choose from. It inspires me to focus more on dynamics. And, it shifts nicely from that low end delicate tone to a full bodied, powerful, concert grand sound.

I had the Blüthner, Bösendorfer 280VC and Bösendorfer Upright and that was my impression as well - especially in the <p dynamic range there were not enough samples, not enough different colors especially compared to Pianoteq (and acoustic pianos of course), but also to good samples like Yamaha/Kawai. And it would also not change the volume in the very low range - for example if I played a Velocity of 5, 10 oder 20 it would trigger the same sample in the same volume (the Blüthner was the worst in this aspect) - and that is not enough for me, it felt static and not reactive. Maybe the Steinway is better in this regard (or even the old Vienna Imperial).

vagfilm

eddiepiano for example if I played a Velocity of 5, 10 oder 20 it would trigger the same sample in the same volume

Yep. By default VSL pianos seem to compensate for the common poor resolution of digital pianos at low velocities, and apply the same sample throughout the first 10~15 velocities. If your technique and DP descriminate these low velocities, you need to adjust the VSL velocity curve accordingly. In my opinion, this is not a flaw: it is a reasonable and logic different implementation. If they made a linear increase from 1 to 127, people with DPs that don't go below 15 would complain of getting loud samples.
What is strange is that the same does not apply to the same extent at the top range; and it is simply bizarre that VSL does not implement vel=1 as silent strike since it is such a common practice among VSTs.

vagfilm

@David B . Nicely played!!! Given how little force you appear to put on the keys, I have the impression that you can tame even a bit more the velocity curve. Right now you hit mf at vel=80, ff at vel=95 and fff a bit above vel 100, with a very steep ramp at the end. Have you tried the same curve profile but ₅ points shifted to the right?

David B

vagfilm Nicely played!!! Given how little force you appear to put on the keys, I have the impression that you can tame even a bit more the velocity curve. Right now you hit mf at vel=80, ff at vel=95 and fff a bit above vel 100, with a very steep ramp at the end. Have you tried the same curve profile but 5 points shifted to the right?

With my current velocity curve, 80 input = 64 output and 96 input = 96 output. 96 is where the curve starts in the other direction with 105 input = 127 output.

I have experimented with the curve shifted slightly to the right. That was the curve in the in Gene's songs that I uploaded in in his thread.

I think I might shift the top section back (to the right) like it was before after listening to the recordings I posted here. It does seem a bit hot in the upper end. I didn't notice it when I was playing. Thanks for pointing that out.

God Bless,
David

[deleted]

I really like this piano the best of all the VSL pianos I've tried so far. For some reason it seems to respond more when I play it. It took me a long time to get my settings the way I like them - they are similar to David's. The Bosendorfer Imperial comes in second for me. There is a slight sound that reminds me of a "plucked' instrument which I do not like - I've been able to adjust a lot of it out, but it never really goes away. I'm trying to get ballsy enough to post an mp3 or video of me playing it but I haven't yet been able to achieve a recording where I don't hit a wrong note at some point…I know I could edit out, but I don't like doing that.

Since the VST has to use my one and only USB-C port on my laptop, I can't use the connector on my phone. So I've been learning to use REAPER - so far I have been able to record the video using my iPhone and then merge that with the sound recording on the PC with REAPER. That all works fine, so now I'm just trying to get an error free performance to post.

David B

[deleted] That all works fine, so now I'm just trying to get an error free performance to post.

Yeah, I usually record several takes and then choose the best one (one with the least errors) to upload. Go for it. I'm sure most people here would love to hear it (myself included).

God Bless,
David

[deleted]

I'm working on Schubert Impromptu #3 Op 90 and Liszt Consolation #3. Hopefully soon…

David B

I adjusted the velocity curve to require more force to hit the the upper velocities as vagfilm suggested. Here I’ll show the lowest to highest velocity (0-127 the hardest I’d ever hit the keys), and then a song with both heavy chording and softer arpeggios. However, because I did this all in one recording, the software attenuated the volume to avoid clipping, and as a result the lower volumes in the song sound very low. I don’t know much about audio engineering so I don’t know how to fix that. I also captured a screen recording of the Synchron Piano velocity curve histogram to make the video more interesting.

https://youtu.be/_28Cfa4vEIE

God Bless,
David

David B

I love the timbre in the soft velocities. It has such a pretty character to it. Here is a gentle medley.

https://youtu.be/UPgkk-cOJzA

God Bless,
David

nicknameTaken

Currently trying out the Demos. I feel there is something awfully off, though. I couldn't yet pin it down, though.
In your demo, the bass feels far too thick. It's so so loud.
The second problem I see I think is timing of tight passages… Not sure what that is.

David B

nicknameTaken In your demo, the bass feels far too thick. It's so so loud.

I do have a slight bass boost in the eq. running through MainStage +1.3 dB @ 226 Hz

Of course, I do it because I like the "thick" and "loud" bass. 🙂

God Bless,
David

nicknameTaken

@David B Re: Bass Boost. I am very perceptible for tonal changes, and in general, my hearing is very accurate…
I do think it is actually due to my Autism. I think I have a great strength there.
Of course, I would feel, if it is 'off'. I would immediately feel it.

David B I just tested a MIDI file of mine across the D274, CFX, 1904 Upright.
Results: Inconsistent intonation. All sound 'lazy'. Like, it doesnt matter if you hit note X like X. Like, you would say Ah-dunno instead of "I do not know". Sounds like phrases are just consistently not on point. Even with forced 50% dynamics.

I like none of those Pianos. When I visited the Piano House years back, I actually Preferred a Schimmel C…. something for its distinct and clear tone.

n-player

nicknameTaken : Bass Boost. I am very perceptible for tonal changes, and in general, my hearing is very accurate…
I do think it is actually due to my Autism. I think I have a great strength there.
Of course, I would feel, if it is 'off'. I would immediately feel it.

Check out the so-called "Fletcher Munson Effect". Basically, as we lower the "volume" of music, some of the bass "disappears". The loudness button on old stereo equipment compensated for this by boosting bass frequencies at lower volumes.

It is a neat trick and makes listening to music at low volumes much more enjoyable. You don't need any fancy equipment, just look at the graphs in the link below. The lower the volume, the higher the boost (and a change in boosted frequency range).

For VI piano, you have to use a bit of trial and error to ensure your playing "velocities" stay consistent on both hands. One could argue that that by NOT boosting bass when playing at lower than real-piano volumes, one would tend to play the left hand with excessively high velocities for the F-M effect.

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/dynamic-eq-recommendations.12116/

nicknameTaken

Re: Lazy sounding VST / Piano

Turns out it was my caused by another device running over USB. Specifically, my Corsair K100 RGB running at 8000hz at a different USB Port, within a Hub caused inaudible dropouts, but only for the Vienna software (confused)
What was the solution? Connect the Keyboard directly to the PC, without a Hub in between.

The keyboard affected my RME ADI 2 DAC FS… which was to begin with on a different port anyways… How weird.

Gamma1734

I always play the vsl with all mics on. But I reduce the voices to 15 and 3, respectively. Honestly , 99% of the time I don't hear a difference while playing compared to the render.!