New Kawai digitals

ClothEaredNincompoop

These will replace the ES-110, CN-29 and CN-39.

David B

No VPC2?

Not interested.

God Bless,
David

CyberGene

What’s improved compared to the previous generation?

HZPiano

David B No VPC2?

No 😭.

Grrrrowl.

HZPiano

CyberGene What’s improved compared to the previous generation?

Not much, I'm afraid. Nothing substantial at least. I consider the ES120 more of a "cost reduction driven product development" than a useful (to us) increment. Did not even get the triple sensor RHC II action as found in the KDP120, which I find rather peculiar.

Cheers,

Jose EB5AGV

David B No VPC2?

Not interested.

God Bless,
David

Well, I guess the market for such an instrument is really small and, maybe, it is a dead-end product line.

I am very, very happy to have bought mine almost two years ago, used but in very good shape, as it has become the center of my music corner

Well, I have three music corners 😅: the one around my U3H, the one around my Montage 6 and the one around the VPC1. So perhaps is better to describe it as the center of my virtual instruments music corner

Jose

HZPiano

Jose EB5AGV Must be a love triangle 💛.

Cheers and the happiest cornering,

Jose EB5AGV

HZPiano well, each "corner" is really on a different room… keyboards tend to invade all and every empty space at home. They have their own life, I am not culprit 😇

Pete14

No NV-20! I wonder what the hold is?

There most certainly is a market for this instrument, and it would nicely fit the rest of the Novus lineup, not to mention, compete against the N3X.

We’re talking 13 years since the N3 came out, and still, no response from Kawai. I sometimes wonder about Kawai’s motives:

Is “piano-making” just a cover for something more nefarious?

I have an eye on that James; for all we know he is a spy 🕵️‍♂️ guised as a ‘piano man.’

I’d hire a private detective to uncover this coverup, but I’m broke, so there’s that…….🤔

QuasiUnaFantasia

But, quite matter of factly, is there really a meaningfully sized customer base for instruments like the N3X? Here in Denmark they are priced at about 10 times the price of a used acoustic grand, which may arguably need quite a bit of money thrown in, before it would be in good condition, but not nearly as much as the hybrid costs. From my perspective, the N3X is priced so that it is pointless; you can get a brand sparkling new Yamaha or Kawai acoustic grand for MUCH less than the hybrid. Who would pay that kind of money? My guess is that Kawai has no need to loose money on such a venture.

HZPiano

QuasiUnaFantasia meaningfully sized customer base for instruments like the N3X?

I recently came across and played one. I was shocked -- and not in a good way.

Of course it has a quality action (although I'd prefer a Millennium III) but I found the sound (!) and vibration system horrible.

The price: a total insult compared to how little enjoyable the instrument was. Just a fancy way to blow (waste!) 17,000€.

So after five minutes I closed the lid and moved on.

Cheers and happy playing of worthwhile instruments,

Pete14

Wow, 17,000€, that’s abusive.

I know at some point I saw a used one selling for under 10K (BC), and they could be bought new for around 11/12 K.

But perhaps you guys are right about the customer-base or lack thereof; however, my hope was that Kawai would step up their game (soundboard, Neotex, etc..) and then force Yamaha into also upping their game. You know what they say, ‘competition spurs innovation.’ And eventually this innovation will trickle down to ‘the new N1X;’ you see where I’m going with this?

Now, about that vibratin’ thing, I agree, it’s a useless gimmick!

LarryS

ClothEaredNincompoop

Very nice!

MacMacMac

Pete14 Wow, 17,000€, that’s abusive.

Perhaps. But it's a really nice piano. The touch is grand (of course). And the sound is astounding.

But 17000 EUR is over $18000 USD. That's much too steep for me.

CyberGene

I don't know how a N3X feels, never tried one. However I remember how I played a N3 once through its speaker system. It's the best digital piano I've ever tested to date when played through speakers. That being said, if I could afford playing loud through speakers, I would just purchase an acoustic.

HZPiano

I made a mistake! The N3X PE I played actually is 21,480€ 😲, not 17,000.

Apparently my memory was unable to retain such an exorbitant price and subconsciously mellowed it a bit.

Imagine that: in the same store there was this 1892 Blüthner 6', fully restored, that I totally fell in love with, for 'just' 19,900€.

No difficulties whatsoever in imagining my dream choice…

Phew,

Khuja Wangtishvili

Actually improvements, especially in ES120 are quite big. Most of all sample from Shigeru, whereas Yamaha still has their 20 year old pure CF in their P line.

Improved action, speakers and sample in CN series.

You're all to mean to Kawai and want instruments that noone needs like VPC2 or NV20.

CyberGene

I’m wondering if Kawai managed to improve their touch response. They seem to prefer more dynamic touch response with light touch and easily produced fortissimos that are unrealistic. When you change the touch response to a heavier one you lose the timbre variation.

At least that’s been the case in the past. I haven’t tested their newer instruments though. Yamaha are always spot on as touch response. I’m opinionated but having owned a few Kawais where there was always something not quite right and then switching back to Yamaha where the core piano experience is the way it should be, it just makes me trust Yamaha slightly more than Kawai when speaking about digital pianos in particular.

Khuja Wangtishvili

CyberGene

As you know, there is no one formula for dynamics. Bosendorfers and Fazioli are reacting very quickly and make fortissimo on them is piece of cake. Indeed Yamaha is far less responsive, and I am talking about acoustics.

Also, YMMV I have not heard yet properly sounding Clavinova, their voicing is a mess since the 4 series to 7 series as well.

Kawai reduced with years their booming bass, Yamaha is where they were. Binaural samples are different story, but standard Clavinova really is far away from piano realism.

CyberGene

Khuja Wangtishvili Kawai reduced with years their booming bass, Yamaha is where they were

Well, Yamaha is indeed where they were: no booming bass, perfectly balanced sound 😀 As to the reduced bass in the Kawai pianos, I'm not believing it until I test it myself.

Khuja Wangtishvili As you know, there is no one formula for dynamics. Bosendorfers and Fazioli are reacting very quickly and make fortissimo on them is piece of cake. Indeed Yamaha is far less responsive, and I am talking about acoustics.

You can't go beyond physics. What the different acoustic pianos have is different timbre, voicing. But you can't make a small and light hammer to produce louder volume than the physical limit. What Kawai digital pianos had for so many years (and probably still have but I have to test latest models) is an attempt to go beyond physics and maintain an unrealistic touch to sound mapping with overly exaggerated dynamics from a very light keyboard which is easy in the realm of electronics and amps but makes for an awkward experience.

Apparently we will agree to disagree, everyone has his own preference. Some of us prefer Yamaha, others prefer Kawai. Things of life.