Yamaha CP88 Review

CyberGene · 2022-05-16T13:04:02+00:00

I received the Yamaha CP88 today. This will be a very brief initial review that I may update when I use it for more time. General It is a very solid instr...

CyberGene

The thing is, there's no perfect stage piano in terms of both features, travel weight and size 😕 A good and solid action that is as close as possible to a real piano requires actual weights inside... I'll probably keep the CP88 instead of downgrading it but the travel weight it's really hurting my back and arms...

Del Vento

CyberGene The thing is, there's no perfect stage piano in terms of both features, travel weight and size

Perhaps it's time for you of embarking on another DIY project?

CyberGene A good and solid action that is as close as possible to a real piano requires actual weights inside...

No if you can find the right actuators with enough strength and lighter enough…. Have you seen https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/744-diy-digital-piano/3 ?

For your goal the best would be to cannibalize and existing synt with the number of octaves you want, remove their sensors, replace with an optical sensors (similar to your Cybrid, but replace comparators with an ADC because you need exact position measurement) and adding actuators to provide force feedback. Given the additional parts, you will need to start with a very light synt to begin with, but I think you have many options there, no?

KevinBSelby

Hey folks! Finally found some time to go out and look for fellow CP88 enthusiasts!
Egads I love this board. I especially love the action. I have had MAAAANY Yamaha keybeds over the years (DGX-640, XF-8, and now CP88) and in my personal opinion, this particular keybed is EXACTLY what I was looking for.
I can tenderly caress it and get very quiet, but then turn around and pound all over it (including routinely hitting 127 velocity) and all the while it feels like I am in COMPLETE CONTROL. Also, I should point out: I have my in-ears (Sony $40 with volume control) directly connected to the headphone out and then use Logic Pro X and the CP88 acts as an audio interface and I record MIDI and Audio at the same time (just to save myself some time in case I nail the recording the first time…then I have an audio track waiting for final processing).

It has indeed been quite the journey from initially hearing it, pounding on it at Ted Brown's for weeks, purchasing it, and then spending 1-2 hours a day for months primarily working through 4 of the built-in grands (in decreasing order of happiness): Hamburg (love it…absolutely love it), Imperial, S700, CFX. I spent those many months playing a certain set of hymns and writing the tunes for "Into the Green" (my own compositions) on all 4 of those grands and then decided at the end to use the Hamburg for "Into the Green" as well as "Emmanuel" (Christmas hymns) and most recently "Acoustic Hymns Vol. 2" (which landed on Apple music and the other platforms TODAY…WOOHOO!). I haven't even yet created a page for it on kevinselby.com (gotta get to that tonight!).

Real quick: "Into the Green" and "Emmanuel" were recorded literally straight out of the CP88 via USB (midi/audio at same time) and I used the on-board reverb of the CP88 and very slight compression in Logic Pro on the master track. Into the Green used slight reverb, whereas Emmanuel used a bit more (I wanted it to sound a little more dreamier). I have since realized that I'd rather use Relab Essentials LX480 (a simple, inexpensive reverb VST that emulates the Lexicon reverb of yesteryear) for the reverb and use the built-in Logic Pro X Compressor Vintage VCA to pull the levels up a bit but not squash the dynamics too much.

Okay…hopefully this forum will allow a few links…in case you are interested in me thoughts.

Thoughts on the Yamaha CP88 (this was immediately after recording "Into the Green" up in the forest of Idaho):
https://kevinselby.com/2022/11/08/thoughts-on-the-yamaha-cp88/

"Into the Green" YouTube playlist (where you can see our beloved CP88 OUT IN THE FOREST MAN…so cool:
[I should point out that the audio in the YouTube videos is a "matrix" mix of direct USB audio blended with what the forest "heard" from a Zoom H4N Pro about 10 yards away "listening" to the Yamaha HS80M studio speakers on the forest floor. If you wanna hear pure audio straight out of the keyboard with no forest, listen to the SoundCloud audio]

I should ALSO point out that I recorded the CP88 with it tuned at 432Hz.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ9yxyj8BBLooC_AyBNL3a7YlZjGJFQQo

"Oh Danny Boy" YouTube - also out in the forest. I include this one because it's a popular song that most folks will appreciate:
https://youtu.be/mPTReDdgtGQ

"Cabin Medley" YouTube - also out in the forest. I include this one and BEG you to go to: Conversion Reprise…in fact the link takes you right there…BECAUSE…at the end of that tune, it shows off the escapement and amazing rapid fire SLAMMING you can do on this keybed…woo…and hoo (I swear I'm not breathing during that last frenetic slam-fest because I'm afraid if I breathe, I'll screw it up):
Cabin Medley 4:22: 04:22
Link to song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Pm8IFf18M

Finally…some SoundCloud links because I ended up remastering the Into the Green tracks a tad (using Relab and Studio VCA compressor) and they only exist in their remastered form on SoundCloud:

SoundCloud links:
Into the Green -

Emmanuel -

Acoustic Hymns Vol. 2 -

NOW…I apologize if I've breached some newbie rule where I'm not supposed to shower you with links and crap…but I figured if y'all are as curious as I am about how others are using the CP88, then maybe it's okay…you have plenty of examples of what I've found with this beast.

What I'm CURRENTLY trying to figure out: so…after listening to Emmanuel and Acoustic Hymns Vol. 2, I determined that I'm quite sick of how I play these days and I want to figure out TWO things:
1. Can I STOP with the left hand constantly doing the root to fifth to 3rd thing? Can I maybe arrange hymns differently in the future?

2. Can I possibly find a grand piano library out there to use within Logic Pro X and maaaaybe it might sound better than the stock CP88 Hamburg sound (which I love…but hey…sometimes ya gotta look for greener pastures occasionally?).

Soooo…I signed up for the UVI "Sonic Pass" thing (which actually…is quite a steal considering you get access to nearly everything these freaks put out…and they put out a HUGE amount of sound libraries.
I then proceeded to record "Be Thou My Vision" using 6 different pianos:

UVI Austrian grand (this is most likely a Bosendorfer, like our beloved Imperial).
UVI Model D (a Model D Steinway…much like our beloved Hamburg, but it (the UVI Model D has some warts I will discuss later).
UVI Italian (Fazioli??).
Addictive Keys - their grand piano, which I painstakingly adjusted the mics and what-not to get it as "Steinway D" sounding as I could.
Yamaha CP88 Hamburg (Steinway…model?…by the by…that is how I stumbled across this site…looking for WHO ON EARTH KNOWS WHAT THE HAMBURG WAS MODELED ON??)
Yamaha CP88 Imperial (Bosendorfer).

I figured out how to A/B between the tracks in Logic Pro X and I am STUNNED…STUNNED I tell you.

I will try to summarize what I found in another post (and in 6 tracks on SoundCloud so you can hear what I did).

Initial thoughts:

The CP88 keybed still absolutely rocks.
When your in-ears/headphones are directly plugged into the CP88, you are struck with how perfectly Yamaha captured the "strike-to-ear" thing. It is amazing. Even playing the VST's within Logic Pro, it is still a great experience.
UVI did NOT build all their Grand's equally.
The UVI Austrian probably sounds the best to my ears and has the best resonance and is probably what I will use to record Acoustic Hymns Vol. 3.
The UVI Steinway D has some warts…oops…already said that…
The UVI Austrian's samples sound pretty close to the CP88's Imperial (which is cool…since we thing they are both Bosie's!!).
The UVI Italian (Fazioli?) is probably the best "balanced" keyboard across the 88 keys and it reminds me of the CP88 S700 (which I love for certain situations…more on that later).

Whewwww…okay…enough for now…I'll hopefully get the 6 tracks recorded TONIGHT and up on SoundCloud and then YOU can hear "Be Thou My Vision" played on 6 different grand's for Kevin's Grand Escapade Shootout.

Again…hope I can post this and hope I haven't annoyed anyone…I just LOVE THIS KEYBOARD!!!

CyberGene

KevinBSelby welcome to the forum! Very nice playing and compositions. Since only a small part of your post is related to the CP88, feel free to split your post into multiple parts in different topics, such as e.g. one that presents your compositions and one that compares various virtual pianos.

KevinBSelby

CyberGene Actually…I looked at it just the opposite. That entire post is music recorded directly from the CP88. The small part is that I'm looking to possibly try different piano libraries against the two pianos (Hamburg and Imperial) in the CP88. I'll make that a separate post if I post it at all…I might just post a URL to SoundCloud and/or KevinSelby.com where I compare the 6 grands.
But yeah…everything else in that post above is pure CP88.

CyberGene

KevinBSelby sure. But don’t be shy, you posted a lot of great music that people not interested in the CP88 might miss 👍🏻

KevinBSelby

CyberGene Ah…I gotcha…I hadn't yet looked at the other topics. GREAT forum here folks…very cool.

Yeah…now that I've prowled around…there are MUCH better libraries out there than the UVI libraries…so I may bag the comparison.
As a quick additional summary:

The ONLY UVI piano I would even CONSIDER using for the next project would be the Austrian Grand and it isn't even that great. It seems to be only 384 Mb and it also seemed to require a LOT of processing power such that on a year old MacBook Pro, I had to adjust the latency settings so I wouldn't get pops and crackles. Luckily it didn't affect the actual latency by much…so it was still playable. I would just use Addictive Keys Studio Grand over this one.

Meanwhile, the UVI Model D is actually pretty bad. Feels very "uncontrollable" and has some notes that stick out (either via weird velocity issues or weird tonal issues). Would not use this for anything.

the UVI Italian, while more "balanced", still isn't "album-worthy".

That leaves the CP88 Hamburg (album-worthy…but I'm fatigued from using it and want to try something different) and the CP88 Imperial (which to my ears isn't as good sounding as the UVI Austrian.

So there's the final review and my semi-professional opinion. I'll either try the Austrian, Addictive Keys, or stick with the Hamburg.

Great forum!

KevinBSelby

Okay…I finally threw together a "Grand Piano Shootout" of nine different grand pianos playing Be Thou My Vision (a popular Christian Hymn):

Addictive Keys Studio Grand (customized by me to sound similar to Steinway D).
UVI Austrian Grand
7 Grand Pianos from CP88.

YouTube video:

https://youtu.be/r-Vfl4PxgO8

Discussion/explanation on kevinselby.com: https://kevinselby.com/2023/02/11/grand-piano-shootout/

SoundCloud Playlist (with the comparison track being Track 1 and then full versions of all 9 grand pianos):

CyberGene

It is with a great sadness to report this news but I sold my CP88 today 😕 In any other regard it is a wonderful piano that I love but as I said I experienced a severe back pain that lasted for two days after I carried this piano from my car to a rehearsal room and back a few weeks ago. It's not the heaviest stage piano there but it's certainly heavy enough for my herniated disc to get hurt... Besides, since it's 88 keys it doesn't fit in my car trunk sideways, so I had to lower half of the backseats and I usually drive the other guys.

And so, I ordered a Studiologic Numa X Piano 73 today 🤣 Yeah, yeah, I know, I had a lukewarm impression from the brief time I owned the Numa X Piano 88 and I posted about that in another discussion. But it's two times cheaper than the CP88 and I am ready to accept some compromise. Besides, they are now at firmware 2.10 and I was at 1.0 and they supposedly improved the touch response which was my main criticism. They also added more sounds and improvements.

P.S. BTW, I managed to sell the CP88 not far from to the original price I paid 7 months ago. Due to the inflation the brand new CP88-s had their prices increasing. At the same time the Numa is still at its original price, so it's not the worst financial acrobatics I've been through.

CyberGene

The soap opera doesn't stop! (I've only seen Dave Ferris on PW changing digital pianos so often and going back and forth between the same models).

As I reported here: CyberGene

I sold the CP88 (too heavy as travel weight and too long to fit in my car) and ordered a Numa X Piano 73 this time. Much lighter and should fit in the car trunk. And supposedly they fixed the touch response, already at firmware 2.10 and many people swear that the touch response is much improved over the firmware 1.0 I was when reported the above. So, let's see.

And of course, you can laugh as much as you want, I guess I deserve it 🤣

Update, here’s my review:
https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/858-studiologic-numa-x-piano-73-review

SouthPark

CyberGene It is with a great sadness to report this news but I sold my CP88 today 😕

Oh geez. The back definitely needs to be looked after. Can herniated disc be fixed up permanently?

David B

CyberGene It's not the heaviest stage piano there but it's certainly heavy enough for my herniated disc to get hurt...

Your health comes before your hobbies. Good choice to move on.

CyberGene P.S. BTW, I managed to sell the CP88 not far from to the original price I paid 7 months ago. Due to the inflation the brand new CP88-s had their prices increasing. At the same time the Numa is still at its original price, so it's not the worst financial acrobatics I've been through.

Sounds like a win win situation.

Looking forward to seeing/haring the new Numa 73

God Bless,
David

SouthPark

Pete14 I love Gould, but I’ve come to believe the whole sitting extremely low and “I only play on that chair” was simply Gould being Gould.

True. We could easily beat Gouldy - as in, we can demand we sit on the floor hehehe

CyberGene

SouthPark Can herniated disc be fixed up permanently?

This probably deserves a separate discussion but I’d say it depends. A surgery may help but it may also worsen it…

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