Digital Pianos with built in sound cards?

homerghost

Hi all! I've tried to research this myself but it's proven difficult to get a good answer! At the moment I have a Roland FP-30X. I love it, but it's definitely stiff action for someone who aspires to be playing faster pieces and doing trills. I'm not overly attached to it, but I use Pianoteq and it has the superb feature of being able to pipe the audio back over the single USB cable so the output comes out of the internal speakers. I can't live without this feature, but from what I can gather it's relatively rare!

So does anyone have any suggestions for a mid-range weighted 88 keyboard that will work well as a midi controller for Pianoteq and allow audio return? Thanks!

CyberGene

homerghost Most Yamaha keyboards (except for the entry level ones) have USB audio interface. Not sure about other brands, some of the latest Studiologic stage pianos have audio interface, some Roland ones too (I think RD88, not sure about the others), Dexibell too. I'd go for a Yamaha P515, it seems to be a popular model both because it in itself is a great digital piano but also as a MIDI controller having a USB audio interface.

David B

homerghost So does anyone have any suggestions for a mid-range weighted 88 keyboard that will work well as a midi controller for Pianoteq and allow audio return? Thanks!

https://youtu.be/Y6_tOgvxqr0

God Bless,
David

Drew-r

homerghost

As a general rule, pretty much everybody who’s anybody in the wide field of forum-schooled piano enthusiast, has the opportunity to know that whenever anybody is looking for a looser / less-stiff weighted-hammer DP action, a Kawai model is likely to be near or at the top of the list for their next purchase.

Another general rule: for anybody looking for a hammer-weighted DP action in a board that has a built-in USB sound card, no Kawai model will be found anywhere on the list for their next purchase. Anyone trying to see some good news in this should be consoled by the fact that this present reality subjectively reduces by approximately 20 to 35 % the entire range of all major brand models that theoretically might be littering the list from which they will select their next DP purchase.

Good luck! 🙂

Pete14

CyberGene I'd go for a Yamaha P515, it seems to be a popular model both because it in itself is a great digital piano but also as a MIDI controller having a USB audio interface

This!

For some perspective, the Roland FP-90X costs $2,449.99 and it simply can’t hold a candle for the P-515 despite its ‘longer pivots’ and ‘modeling.’

Whatever Yamaha did with the CFX and VRM works exceptionally well, and I’m not a ‘sampling’ kind o’ guy, but still, WOW!

If you pair it with Pianoteq, you’re in heaven; if you blend both the on-board CFX and Pianoteq, it will take some extra tweaking (especially for volume/intonation), but it is so worth it, and can be done gradually (every time you sit at the piano you tweak a little/save; then, tomorrow, tweak a little more/save; and once you arrive at something satisfying you’re good to go (I haven’t ‘tweaked’ in ages).

I am serious, people, Roland overprices on the pretext of being better when in reality it isn’t; and generally speaking, Yamaha is better. Period. End of sentence.

Oh, I forgot, the P-515 was supposed to be a downgrade from my LX-17, and it turned out to be an upgrade for much less $$$.

You know those huge 10” subwoofers in the LX-17, they were loud alright, but the tiny speakers in the P-515 give me something so much more organic and “real,” that sometimes I just can’t believe it.

This is why I’ve been singing the P-515 praises for so long; it is, in my onion, an award-winning instrument for a meager $1,500!

homerghost

David B Very interesting you went through a similar journey to me from the FP-30X. Very nice video, thank you for sharing. This looks like a strong choice. Can the P125 still output audio from my computer over USB? It's a big step up to the 525!

CyberGene

David B David, do you still keep the P125 and how do you like it, especially the action, when compared to the N1X? I'm asking since I ultimately decided to swap my recently purchased YC61 (with waterfall keyboard suitable for organ playing but also pretty nice for pianos too) for a YC73 because I'm a piano player after all and would mostly play the Rhodes and the piano voices and need more keys than 61 and also a hammer action. It has a BHS action (which is just the non-graded version of GHS that uses the lightest weighted zone from GHS throughout). There's no way for me to test it anywhere and I will have to wait for it two and half months because it's heavily backordered. The only unknown for me about the YC73 is the action since it's otherwise the same instrument as YC61, so it's the only thing I'm a bit concerned about, I would really prefer as light feeling keyboard as possible, even lighter than a standard hammer action keyboard. Having owned a Studiologic SL73 which was unplayable due to overly heavy keys, I really hope that Yamaha knew what they were doing and since the instrument is a Hammond, Rhodes and piano board in one, they put a very light feeling and nimble keyboard there. So, what's your verdict on the GSH after you owned it along with the N1X? (BTW, I consider N1X very light feeling and is why I've never stopped loving ever since I bought it, needless to say it's my most beloved piano!)

MBiG

David B

Hello David,

a really very good and successful presentation of this instrument. You could also do this professionally. It is very clear that you are used to speaking in front of others. :-)

Thank you very much for the video.

Pete14

Drew-r whenever anybody is looking for a looser / less-stiff weighted-hammer DP action, a Kawai model is likely to be near or at the top of the list for their next purchase.

Perhaps you meant well, Drew-r, but, where I’m from you will get shot for such a remark, “looser/less stiff!”

I know, this seems like macho-man talk ‘round here, but that’s just the way I grew up, and as they say,

“two loose don’t make one stiff.”

Would you reconsider? Unless you were actually insulting Kawai in the guise of a praise.

Drew-r

Pete14

🥰

Brother @Pete14 , i cannot disagree with what you say but will add: sometimes i simply call them as i see them. In this case, i simply laid bare some cold hard facts, wherein it is not i that insults, but clearly the facts do.

I might add that @Drew-r is currently numbered among Kawai owners …. is he to blame for it’s USB-muted shame?

Pete14

Drew-r
🍆 🍆 🍆!

Where I’m from we don’t use ⭐️ but rather 🍆 !

My teacher once gave me 4 🍆s! The most any of her students ever got; keep up the good work, and you’ll soon get another ⭐️….I’m sorry, I mean another 🍆!😉

Drew-r

Pete14

Thank you, brother Pete…. this time of year, good eggplant is hard to come by…. sautéed in butter, yum.

On a good day, i’d rather have some 🍆. On a bad day, i’d even prefer greenstamps to ⭐️ , if you can find’em, apparently the enlightened emoticon engineers at 🍎 corp cannot, despite having time to gin up green girl 🧑‍🎤 ( the bastards ! she’s green in the palette view but red& yellow in the forum view 🙁, between apple & flarum, somebody’s not getting my 🍆 award !! )…….green glove🧤( its green, i tell you, dammit, not grey!!) …… starstamp 🌠 …… even verde virus for cryin out loud 🦠 ….. but alas no greenstamps, must go with greenpants …. I SAY GREENPANTS, not bleepin blu!!! 🩲🩲🩲🩲

Pete14

Oh my, I just looked up the meaning of “eggplant;” how could you people take such an innocent fruit, which is eaten as a vegetable, and make it into something so naughty.

I just don’t “see” it; egg + plant = eggplant, and it makes me wonder who’s in charge at the emoji factory.

Still, I’m just a visitor on your land; so I will abide and simply plant a ⭐️ for your efforts, but keep in mind that I’m really giving you an eggplant; because unlike you, we don’t turn our fruits into naughty things!

Purgatory here I come!

Pete14

CyberGene BTW, I consider N1X very light feeling and is why I've never stopped loving ever since I bought it, needless to say it's my most beloved piano!)

Not to further instigate, but my impression of the old N1 was that it was a bit heavy/sluggish, but with the N1X the action felt so responsive and easy to play; not to mention, playing softly.

The N1 seemed to require more effort to ‘get there,’ and I’ve always wondered if Yamaha did indeed improve the action (and not tell us), or maybe it’s simply the better sound engine (CFX/VRM) that makes all the difference.

Keep in mind that Yamaha tends to “tweak” their actions and not ‘officially’ talk about it; for example, some people/dealers swear on their lives that the GrandTouch action in the 785 has been improved over the 685, yet Yamaha never made such a claim.

P.S.

As far as I’m concerned, the only ‘official’ difference between the N1/X action is that the X replaced a wooden part for plastic, but I doubt this would have any significant impact on the action, so it can’t be that. I sometimes wonder if it simply comes down to regulation; perhaps the X gets a better regulation at the factory. As we all know, a regulation can -sometimes- make or break an action.

David B

CyberGene While I prefer the GHS action on the Yamaha over the PHA-4 on the Roland, I still don't like the way if feels compared to my N1X. The constant upweight of the keys is uncomfortable for me since I'm used to the feel of the variable release on the N1X acoustic action.

Even though it takes approximately the same weight to depress the keys on both actions (50-60 grams), the GHS action feels lighter and I think that's because of the constant upweight pressure. So it feels a bit easier to play faster runs, but with less dynamic control overall. That's the biggest difference I notice between the two actions. Even for a novice like me I can detect the advantage the N1X action offers dynamically especially when playing softly.

I didn't measure the lightest weight (high C) on the P125, but I'd imagine it's also in the 50 gram range. I can check next time I'm at the office. If the entire keyboard is set to that weight, I think the action will feel much lighter to you compared to the N1X.

God Bless,
David

CyberGene

Pete14 Keep in mind that Yamaha tends to “tweak” their actions and not ‘officially’ talk about it

Yes, they’ve been using the GH name for ages and it certainly changed. I’m not sure why they are doing it though. Marketing teams usually come up with some new fancy names even when things are unchanged.

Drew-r

Pete14 Keep in mind that Yamaha tends to “tweak” their actions and not ‘officially’ talk about it; for example, some people/dealers swear on their lives that the GrandTouch action in the 785 has been improved over the 685, yet Yamaha never made such a claim.

These reminders are sometimes helpful for people (like me) not already aware that a brand - like Yamaha - may, from time to time and with no fanfare , tweak or possibly improve an otherwise old horse. @MacMacMac pointed out to me, during my early phase of becoming attracted to DGX670, that perhaps it is built with an undocumented, improved version of GH action.

CyberGene

David B The constant upweight of the keys is uncomfortable for me since I'm used to the feel of the variable release on the N1X acoustic action.

Yes, unfortunately all digital pianos suffer from that effect. Which is why I prefer light-weighted digital actions where that issue is naturally minimized.

MacMacMac

A piano with built-in sound card = piano without built-in sound card + sound card.
Just buy the sound card. And then every piano meets the requirement.

Frédéric L

MacMacMac Just buy the sound card. And then every piano meets the requirement.

Among the cheapest digital piano, there are no audio line input and you can’t reuse the piano speakers. (Ok, it is not an important lack with such DP).

(And I have read that some N1 - not among the cheapest - has a noise gate which could cut the note tails…)

But sure, I have practiced a Yamaha CLP150 with a Steinberg UR22… without any issue. A MIDI (DIN5) interface instead of USB can be handy to avoid ground loop noises.

I use a N1X with its integrated sound card, but it reports an higher latency than the UR22 despite of the same drivers.

homerghost

MacMacMac The requirement I have is for a piano that allows me to use the onboard speakers (and headphone jack) as my computer's audio output. This isn't something than an external soundcard can facilitate.

Pete14

Let us not forget: convenience!

One single cable, Mac, that’s all it takes; one single cable does the job in both directions!

Now, I ask, is that alone not worth a built-in sound card?

…then there’s interference, two (not one) quarter inch cables, noise gates, and a huge box (interface) in between it all!

One cable, Mac, one cable!