Native Instruments NOIRE: My new piano

David B · 2022-03-05T03:10:48+00:00

I’m the proud owner of a new Noire virtual piano thanks to HZPinao for trading his Noire for my VILabs Ravenscroft/True Keys. The Noire is sampled from a CFX grand that has been voiced to be warm and intimate (less attack). According to NI they selected the best 22 samples per key (out of the 70-100 sampled) to produce a smooth 22 layer dynamic curve. No Round Robbins keeps the library manageable at 16GB. Right now it’s vying for first place over my VSL BI. The fact that it doesn’t require a dongle makes it more convenient to use at work. Also, Kontakt Player runs universal binary (Apple M1) so I can run the latency at 32 samples (lowest setting) and my MacBook Pro doesn’t even break a sweat. The only thing I miss is the lack of a soft pedal. I got used to using it with the BI and my foot keeps moving to it (muscle memory) only to be reminded that it has no effect. Although, even without the soft pedal the dynamic range (IMO) is better than VSL’s BI. I can’t get the soft intimate sound while still maintaining the big concert grand volume with the BI like I can with the NOIRE. I’ve always gravitated towards warm/mellow sounding pianos. Both the VSL BI and the Noire are warm pianos with the Noire being a bit more intimate. Here are my current settings: Noire Pure Color +10% Reverb Vintage Plate 140 Med Release Samples -10 db Resonance -6 db Overtones -20 db Low Keys +20% Silent Key, Repedal, and half-pedal engaged EQ Presence +6 db Kontakt Player EQ -3 db @ 349 Hz (this helps to bring out more clarity in the midrange) Velocity curve Linear Here is a beautiful hymn I recorded the other day with my VSL BI and now recorded with the Noire. I think this song sounds better with the Noire. God Bless, David

David B

HZPiano It is a great pleasure to keep reading you're having such a ball with Noire!

And, as others have commented here and elsewhere, your playing certainly keeps evolving, which is a joy to see/hear. To what extent does Noire play a role in that as well?

Of course, I've only had NORIE for a month, but it definitely brings more satisfaction to me when I sit down at the piano and play. I wish I could be satisfied with the internal sound of the N1X, that would have saved me a lot of money, but there really is no comparison to my ears. NOIRE seems alive/organic while the N1X CFX seems sterile.

I think the playability of NOIRE is very good. I actually like the playability of NOIRE better because of the sound and response to input throughout the dynamic range. The adjustable release samples are more authentic, the lower velocity layers are gentle (like the N1X), but there is more attack and volume when needed. However, I do wish there was individual note editing and una corda samples in NOIRE.

HZPiano although I'd already given up on Ravenscroft, today I have created an unexpected preset which I more than like -- I actually feel it is rather useful and playable now!

Wonderful! That makes me feel better about our trade.

God Bless,
David

MacMacMac

HZPiano The standard Windows MIDI only allows one program to listen to a port.

That's curious. Because I have three programs reading MIDI simultaneously from my Presonus MIDI port.

HZPiano

David B Wonderful! That makes me feel better about our trade.

😉 Which was why I mentioned it 🙂

🎶

H💤

HZPiano

MacMacMac I have three programs reading MIDI simultaneously from my Presonus MIDI port.

I assume that with your PreSonus interface (I love mine as well 🙂) install came a proprietary (better) MIDI driver that doesn't use the standard Windows one, which would explain that.

Cheers and happy multi-clients,

H💤

HZPiano

David B I've only had NORIE for a month

So you even have given it a pet name 😇

🎶

H💤

HZPiano

David B I wish I could be satisfied with the internal sound of the N1X

A couple of weeks ago I listened to the N1X renderings on @Frédéric L 's excellent page http://www.sinerj.org/~loyer/piano/Fantaisie and was rather underwhelmed.

I have never played any Yamaha hybrid in the flesh, but would have hoped for a much higher engine quality in such premium instruments, these days.

Luckily we have our pet alternatives 🙂.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

CyberGene

The problem with internal piano engines is they use dry samples with no ambience mics. I think the N1X samples are good but the lack of realistic reverb makes them dull and not very interesting.

MacMacMac

HZPiano I assume that with your PreSonus interface (I love mine as well 🙂) install came a proprietary (better) MIDI driver that doesn't use the standard Windows one, which would explain that.

I didn't know that Windows had a MIDI driver. I cannot imagine what it would do. A driver is the interface to a device. So ... what device is the Windows MIDI driver meant to communicate with?

Frédéric L

MacMacMac The Windows USB-MIDI driver implements MIDI ports with any USB Class Compliant MIDI/USB device. The only required third party drivers are with none USB Class Compliant devices, when the device maker had preferred to implement its own fancy protocol to exchange with the device.

USB Class Compliant devices follow one of the common protocols, then it is possible to develop generic drivers. (In the same way, the generic USB-Disk driver can control Toschiba, Hitachi, Western Digital, Seagate…. Drives and you don’t have to install different drivers for different drives).

Note that some USB host - MIDI adapters (Kenton, MidiTech…) can only communicate with USB Class devices since you can’t feed them with a specific driver.

Some USB Class devices have specific drivers. They are not needed, but can enhance the generic driver (e.g. support multiple access at the same time)

HZPiano

jdg78 Re: Ravenscroft, that's interesting. That's the one VST I own that I've never been able to find a satisfactory setting for, and I'd pretty much given up on it. I'm actually trying to sell it right now on another forum, but so far no takers.

Would you mind sharing your preferred settings when you get a chance? It would be great if I could find some way to redeem this one.

Hello @jdg78 , I half-promised to make a thread to share my Ravenscroft settings, but first wanted to see how they held over a bit of time.

Right now I am not utterly convinced of all of that, so I feel I haven't got many intelligent remarks to make on the Ravenscroft.

I was, contrary to my usual approach, experimenting with only the player mic with some side mic added. I also had the tone dialed down to -4.5. Thought I liked it at the time, but still can't make a real authentic connection. The piano is 'somewhere' but not 'right here' when playing it. If that makes any sense. And that's not what I am looking for in a virtual/digital piano.

I also struggled to get a good velocity curve in -- it is not very easy to edit in any customized way. So I'm currently spending my time on other things than to keep struggling with this one.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Cheers and happy experimenting,

Frédéric L

Ravenscroft has a characteristic timbre. We like it or not. It doesn’t fit well with what I like when I am playing classical music. Perhaps I should give it a try with more contemporary music.

jdg78

HZPiano

No worries, I’m not going to hold you to it.

My biggest issue with the Ravenscroft is that the entire lower third or so of the keyboard sounds thin and underpowered, and I don’t think any amount of tweaking with the settings is going to make up for this. I actually rather like the clarity and purity of tone in the mid and upper regions, but the bass region just sounds anemic in comparison.

Every few weeks I’ll start playing around on it just to see if it creates a more favorable impression, but after about 10 minutes or so I always give up and go back to my favorites.

It’s a shame because it has a lot of other positive attributes, but I just can’t get over the glaring issue with the bass notes.

HZPiano

jdg78 lower third or so of the keyboard sounds thin (Ravenscroft)

I found the best way to improve (somewhat) on this is to use the side microphone, added to taste but not at the full 0dB. It brings in some of the cabinet/wood timbre that gives a bit more body to the sound. On the downside it makes the piano less immediate, in other words moves the sound image away from us, the players.

So far, the only library that gives me that immediacy -- closing my eyes and adding some wishful(!) imagination I almost feel as actually playing a true piano -- is Modern U. If it weren't for that Modern U, I would have given up on the whole VSTi piano idea. Perhaps to some extent, but not quite there, Noire did it as well, but only after considerable tweaking away from the defaults.

Cheers and happy Easter,

PS:

jdg78 It’s a shame because it has a lot of other positive attributes (Ravenscroft)

Yes, it certainly has -- in particular compared to many other libraries that are downright unusable.

Gamma1734

Nice to see the love for this fantastic instrument. I think I got it in an offer for 75€ and for that money it's a steal. While I wouldn't play all kinds of music on it necessarily (very loud music, very dynamic music) it has a wide range of applications. Although the dynamic range it really good it sometimes feels like to demand too much from the instrument, and the VSL for example feel a bit better for these things. But I always loved the many options you have on the noire, heck I have even used their noises for other purposes or music I made, it's just nice to have a noise generator putting out different noises. The reverbs are nice, the added Sine-Bass they placed under instrument often made me smile when I tried it out, the detuning options literally transform the instrument into something else. And then the whole algorithm section… I even love the GUI, it's just always nice to look at, it makes fun to work with it and interact

HZPiano

Hey @Gamma1734 how nice to 'see' you again!!

Cheers,

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