Let's Jazz -- the Hammond Vibes

HZPiano

Hello,

Update:

At first, I held off because I thought I needed some extra bits of not-so-affordable control hardware to make playing Hammond practical and bring it anywhere near realistic. But I made some worthwhile discoveries since.

So, at holiday sales price, I purchased Acousticsamples' B5v3 Hammond emulation. There are some quirks I still need to iron out with it, but the sounds I get bring huge grins to my face that don't easily wipe off 😁. It is one of the two best emulations (the other one being the IK B-3X) with lots of attention to detail.

The gizmo that made it accessible for me is this little bar with nine faders, nine knobs, nine buttons, and some otherwise-assignable transport buttons and a pan slider. The faders are now the (upper) manual drawbars, the knobs got various other functions (like the various volumes and the two bass drawbars), the buttons control percussion settings, and the pan slider is now the 'half moon switch', which I can whack left for slow Leslie and right for fast.

https://www.bax-shop.nl/midi-studio-controllers/devine-ez-creator-fade-usb-midi-controller

I also had an eye on a much, much nicer but currently out of budget solution:

https://www.gmlab.it (scroll down that page to 'D9U' and 'D9X').

I'll also look into setting up my continuous sustain pedal as a rudimentary swell pedal, and perhaps buy a real one later when I grow up.

Cheers and Let's Jazz,

Del Vento

HZPiano and perhaps buy a real one later when I grow up.

If you find an old one on craigslist/ebay for cheap or nothing, you can very easily use a Raspberry Pi Pico (a $4 board) to transform the potentiometer reading into the appropriate MIDI value. That is super-easy and I'll be happy to help you with that if you need -- actually you'll see what I mean either later this weekend or the next when I'll post something related.

CyberGene

Nice! Let's hear some demos 😃 Cheers 🍻

HZPiano

Hello,

CyberGene, Del Vento, Let me try to learn how to tame the beast first 😬 it is rather different from piano 😲.

Cheers and let's Jazz,

David B

CyberGene Nice! Let's hear some demos 😃 Cheers 🍻

Del Vento Yes congratulations and looking forward to some videos (or at least audio) to see how it goes!

Pics or it didn't happen. 😀

God Bless,
David

Del Vento

Yes congratulations and looking forward to some videos (or at least audio) to see how it goes!

HZPiano

Del Vento Thanks for offering help!

My pedals (Kawai F-10H, optical, lovely) are interfaced Teensy/Arduino style already, so I'm good!

With purchasing I meant a good quality expression pedal, to be used as a more proper swell pedal.

Cheers and happy microcontrolling,

PS I'll keep an eye on your technical developments 🙂.

Del Vento

HZPiano delvento Thanks for offering help!

You are most welcome!

HZPiano With purchasing I meant a good quality expression pedal, to be used as a more proper swell pedal.

That is exactly what I meant. If you have a digital piano, you don't have the corresponding input to use a proper swell pedal such as https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NX-P--nektar-nx-p-universal-expression-pedal and would need something like https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php which sets you $60 for one pedal or 150 dollars for four-input one.

A simple $4 pico (plus the money for the case and the plugs, if you want it separate, otherwise you can place inside the pedal itself, assuming there's room and cable it directly without the plugs) will provide you inputs for 3 pedals on a MIDI-over-USB output which you can totally program yourself to your liking, very, very easily! But admitedly the 150 dollar pedal may be good enough and not too expensive, if you are not eager to get into into software and DIY 🙂

HZPiano

Hello,

Del Vento I am amazed with what is possible nowadays with those microcontrollers, particularly for our runaway 😋 hobbies.

I had no idea of them until about a year ago, when I wanted to use a Kawai F-10H pedal for my piano setup, for those are really excellent (I now have two of them). Indeed I interfaced it through one of Rob's MIDIExpressions, which I devised and built some simple additional circuitry around so that the optical sensor board in the pedal was sufficiently powered from the USB port.

Since that little learning experience, I am now aware of the microcontroller phenomenon and have some idea of what they can do.

Cheers and happy microcontrolling,

CyberGene

I just ordered a Yamaha YC61 which is a Hammond clone but also a nice Rhodes (and acoustic) piano board with FM-engine. It is loved by many people and I plan to explore Hammond more this time with a proper board like this. Many users say it's pretty good for playing piano voices too, even though it has synth action and I believe them since I like playing the piano on my MODX6 (which BTW I'm going to sell). It's a B-stock from Thomann, €150 off the regular price. Hopefully all is OK, I haven't ordered B-stock items previously but it seems it's a regular customer return. In any case, it has full 3-year warranty and 30-day return and I can always replace it with an unopened item if I decide so.

HZPiano

CyberGene I just ordered a Yamaha YC61 which is a Hammond clone

Wow! I'll be super interested how you fare with that. Have you also seen/considered this (or its single-manual buddy)?

https://youtu.be/cUH58_HfPsU

I'm still experimenting with my 'budget setup' extending my piano to have Hammond fun with:

(Everything is remapped/redirected to the AS B5v3 through MIDI-OX and LoopMidi. Roland gets the bass pedal (leftmost octaves) and lower manual, Casio gets the upper manual, the fader thingy gets the drawbars and other knobs/switches for the organ functions, the tiny keys get the preset switching for the lower and upper manuals, as found in the 'black' octaves to the left of each manual on a real Hammond. This photo shows everything (except the Roland) wobbling precariously 😲 on stacks of tissue boxes as a layout test/experiment… I also concocted a Leslie speed switch for just a few euros -- the commercially available ones start at ca. 75 euros (up to double that from Nord, which isn't even that good) with yet uncertain connection compatibility. My switch is basically the same and just plain works.)

Cheers and Let's Jazz,

Del Vento

CyberGene I just ordered a Yamaha YC61 which is a Hammond clone but also a nice Rhodes (and acoustic) piano board with FM-engine.

Just looking at the specs, it seems very overpriced for a synth action with only 61 keys (in the USA is $2000 and the B-stock discount won't make such a dent into it). I'd understand it for stage artists who really want to reliability of a keyboard with included sounds, drawbars, many buttons and potentiometers all fingertips, but do you do all that kind of stuff? Wouldn't the laptop you already have with a less expensive 61 keys board meet your needs? Just to be clear: I am asking to understand your thought process (obviously different from mine), not questioning your choice.

CyberGene

HZPiano Have you also seen/considered this (or its single-manual buddy)? [Hammond SKX Pro]

Yes, but my main goal is rather Rhodes and piano and a bit of organ. YC61 to me seems like a bit more balanced and universal compared to the Hammond which is, as expected from the company, uncompromising Hammond clonewheel with some other features added. But I love that the Hammond has a monophonic VA synth! However the audio interface in the Yamaha won me since I can easily add an iPhone or laptop to it for additional sounds. Besides, I’ve been a bit of a Yamaha fanboy lately 😀

Pete14

Oh, there you are!

You know, I can’t run this place by myself, and the people assigned to me are, let’s say, missing in action.

Drew-r locked himself in his corner office and won’t come out unless we meet some demand having to do with paternal leave. I won’t have this!

Mac is out on medical leave (not that he helped me much when he was around); besides, who needs two weeks to recover from a few stitches? I’d be back to work the next day, but that’s just me!

Del Vento keeps wanting to “work from home”, but I don’t buy this; I know what he’s working on at home: his hybrid!

Then there’s the Lone Ranger, EssBrace; I fired him, but I believe he’s still lurking in the attic. I’m afraid to check up there, but I hear noises, CG, I hear noises coming from the attic!

CyberGene

Pete14 👻

Drew-r

Pete14 Drew-r locked himself in his corner office and won’t come out unless we meet some demand

On the one hand, I’m a bit taken back ( in a good way) by by these words…. thanks @Pete14 for noticing that you have not noticed me as much lately …. maybe it ( the other hand) is working 🙂… on the other hand, i’m trying to meet my own demands, to get better at being less of the persona non grata around here .

On the other hand ( i have 3 … or more, sometimes) 👐🤟, i’m somewhere lost in nostalgia and the recent loss of a friend with whom i was best friends for the better part of 20 years between 71’ & 91….ergo Tally’s Lullaby, which belongs in the other thread, but, hey! I’m COO, the boss has noticed my recent slacking, and to add another brick in the wall of what non-classical i really like to listen to, here is a flashback to Marco in Boston who graced that other place with the following …. which i bookmarked and have listened to hundreds of times, because i like it ….. sometimes we may think we found them but they, like Tally, in fact find us. I do not give a flying fig about the advertisement or the Celviano’s obvious albeit brief lack of GP fidelity, i just really like Max’s take on the blues, which, right now, is helping to pull me out of grief …. yes, its true, the blues sometimes help me avoid getting stuck in grieving.

Peace …. and, um, nice Rhode’s stuff there too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJWe6JW5qk

CyberGene

Del Vento I'd understand it for stage artists who really want to reliability of a keyboard with included sounds, drawbars, many buttons and potentiometers all fingertips, but do you do all that kind of stuff? Wouldn't the laptop you already have with a less expensive 61 keys board meet your needs?

Well, that’s a good explanation of why I’m getting it 🙂 I play in a band where my duties are Rhodes, organ, synths and we do mostly improvisational music, so I need a board which is very immediate and I can easily manipulate sounds, split and layer, tweak effects.

I started with a MIDI controller and a laptop and it’s just too awkward to change stuff on a laptop while playing. It was frustrating and the others were not happy. Assigning stuff to the knobs didn’t help since I’m not good with memory (remembering what is where) and there aren’t that much knobs on the controller either.

Then I purchased a MODX6 but it turned out it wasn’t better because although it had much more sounds that are directly accessible and very tweakable, it needed a “university degree” to program and I embarrassed myself scrolling through menus while the other guys were waiting for me to find what I was looking for.

That is why Nord keyboards are so popular among live musicians. And that’s the Yamaha answer to Nord. Yes it’s expensive for what it is, though. When more companies start making such kind of “immediate” keyboards for live musicians, easy to control live and not requiring from musicians to be very good with remembering stuff and programming in advance, then the competition will bring down the prices I guess.

Del Vento

CyberGene Well, that’s a good explanation of why I’m getting it 🙂 I play in a band

Ah! I did not know that! It then makes perfect sense. Are you trying to compete with KJ at it 🤣 ?

Post some videos once in a while, especially when you get this new board!

CyberGene

Well, it may be blasphemous but I've been discussing about the YC61 on the Keyboard Corner of Music Player forums rather than here (apparently there are many gigging musicians there and there's a lot of interest in the new firmware of YC), but I will repost my latest post here too:

Received my YC61 from Thomann today. It's a B-Stock which was €150 off but it seems pristine, no traces of use whatsoever. It came with 1.02 which I guess is the initial firmware and I'm wondering if it was actually an old showroom model and not a user return. Anyway, I updated it to 1.20.

BTW, @AnotherScott, the default presets are updated to use the Studio rotary speaker, at least the main one is updated, haven't checked the rest. Wondering if they weren't updated on the YC73 since you said they stayed with the Classic one. That's odd.

I'm not a Hammond user, never played a real one nor have been too interested or familiar with the Hammond organ or the Leslie speakers, so I can't comment on the improvement of the Leslie emulation but I checked between the two and I think it's very apparent that the Studio (the new one) sounds better than the Classic one.

I like the keyboard, it's pretty good for pianos and Rhodes. But I started wondering if I should have gotten the 73 instead since I'm a pianist after all. Anyway, I have 30 days to decide whether to return this and replace it with a YC73 (which will be available after 2-3 months according to Thomann).

A few things that I don't like:

I'm not sure I'm very fond of having to switch between Key A and B. It would be much better to have them separately but there's no space for that. It makes me think whether I should actually take the CP73 instead (immediately available at Thomann) since I'm not sure how much I will play Hammond organs although I like them and we plan on doing some classic rock and progressive stuff but still.

The selector for category (piano, e.piano, synth, other) is one with 4 fixed positions, not an endless encoder. If you are, say, on the last one, i.e. "Other" for key A and the selector is physically there, then switch to B which is on the first position "Piano" and you decide to move to another category, you would intuitively try to turn towards the next category but it would be stuck since physically the knob is already at its last position. I hate this type of things. Wondering why they didn't replace it with endless knobs.

I like that there's portamento for the mono synths, however if you remove all the effects and listen to the raw sound of an AWM2 program, say the Moog lead, the portamento is stepped and sound pretty awkward. I guess that's inevitable with sampled engines trying to do a portamento but as an owner of a Boog Model D and a Hydrasynth, it's a bit disappointing to have to listen to such a lame portamento.

No way I can remember and decode the two-letter effect meaning.

With all these things in mind, I'm wondering if I should actually replace this with a CP73, or at least a YC73. I think the ergonomic of the CP73 is better with more immediate knobs and switches (no need to switch between A/B that are reusing the same knobs and switches). Well, no organs, no FM and no portamento, but I have the Hydrasynth for that. Or if I stick to the YC, maybe still switch to the YC73 for its hammer action and full Rhodes register...

To add to what I wrote there, I've enjoyed a lot playing with the drawbars and all the effects. There's something really alive in what comes out, especially with that smooth waterfall keyboard doing palm slides and the likes 😀 But knowing myself I'm wondering how quickly I will lose interest in Hammond emulations. I've never been interested in Hammond but then, I have only touched some rather lame rompler programs on different stage pianos so far and the YC61 is sooooo good, the difference is huge! I've enjoyed a lot playing these great Hammond patches now. Realistically I'm mostly an acoustic piano player (equally playing Rhodes in band situations) and I have a great synth (the ASM Hydrasynth) as a second keyboard and I believe the most suitable instrument for me would've been the CP73. I have time to decide though.

HZPiano

CyberGene Nice that you posted this here as well 🙂.

Cheers and happy palm smears,