Modern D vs Pianoteq

dikrek · 2026-03-05T01:51:23+00:00

Hi all, making this its own post - thanks for the feedback on the other thread. It became clear we need a great real performance to compare, not some robotic MIDI file, so I used David's own (obviously I don't have the proper velocity curve but let's see). This is his performance on YouTube: Here are 3 renditions with Pianoteq. debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-hbd.mp3 debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-nyd.mp3 debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-bluthner.mp3 @HZPiano to your earlier point - I feel I can connect with the music with this tone. Still lipstick on a pig? 🙂 @David Lai I didn't try to get exactly the recording tone of Modern D but more the essence. @QuasiUnaFantasia still hear a Wurli player mixed with a synth bass player? @David B compare to v8 and tell me if it sounds better to you. @emily still xylophone? 🙂 @Pete14 constructive comments if possible 🙂

HZPiano

srodrigo I assume Garritan and Modern D

And:

Modern U
Ravenscroft 275

Although the latter is quite a bit older and not on the level of U and D yet, it certainly pointed in the direction of the superb quality of VI Labs that was to follow.

CyberGene

I'm definitely not sure whether VSL "has it all". As far as I know it is still lacking in the pedaling, Una Corda, and resonances departments. In my view VSL is for serious producers, not so much for pianists who seek ultimate playing realism.

Cheers!

srodrigo

HZPiano In my view VSL is for serious producers, not so much for pianists who seek ultimate playing realism.

All I seek is to hit Record, sit, play, hit Stop, upload/share. I can't be asking for too much 😃 Just something that it's playbable so that I don't need to edit midi values (cheating for a performer) but also a group of people don't close the recording because it sounds "Pianoteq-y".

dikrek

srodrigo did you like any of my tweaking attempts?

srodrigo

dikrek I haven't checked them out.

CyberGene

srodrigo it’s exactly what I use Garritan CFX for. It’s very playable and sounds great for recordings. I usually practice and learn pieces using my onboard N1X because that’s the most playable and honest piano there is, I can easily notice the deficiencies and areas where I need to practice more. Once ready, I switch to Garritan CFX for a while to get used to how its sound and dynamics respond to the work I will be recording. It’s a flattering piano though, since it can make everything sound beautiful and effortless, that’s why I don’t use it when learning. Once I export a file with it, I’ve never heard anyone saying anything about the piano sound. It’s universally well accepted and the worse you can read is that it’s simply not the most favorite piano sound (the Yamaha CFX that is), for instance @QuasiUnaFantasia is one such person. But I’ve never heard anyone saying that it sounds synthetic or anything like that. Of course, there are people like @RIP who will recognize it as a virtual piano and not an acoustic piano but they will say that for Pianoteq too. And then, there are more people IMO who will get annoyed by a Pianoteq render. And FWIW, I can’t easily distinguish between a good virtual piano render (from e.g. Garritan CFX, VSL, Modern D, etc) and a professional studio recording of a well-prepped acoustic piano.

QuasiUnaFantasia

CyberGene I actually think The Garritan CFX Lite is a very believable instrument, in that it sounds real. The sound is too brilliant for my taste, but it comes across as an essentially acoustic instrument.

srodrigo

CyberGene Thanks. I wish Garritan offered a trial. Also concerned about the company going under given how old the product is and some users struggling to run it on new Apple hardware (seems like the issue is solved now though). I think it's either that or VSL, but apparently VSL struggles with pedalling and resonances, so not quite viable on paper.

CyberGene

srodrigo unfortunately Garritan is almost an abandonware at this time. Although it’s pretty stable and to me still one of the best virtual pianos. If they offered it for some symbolic price such as e.g. $20, they would sell a lot.

_sem_

CyberGene I bought Lite on discount, considered it a paid demo 😉 No regrets, but having Modern D I didn't feel like upgrading to full though it wasn't big bucks.

srodrigo apparently VSL struggles with pedalling and resonances

And velocity curves and whatever else, try a demo or two and see for yourself. But better buy functional abandonware 😉

srodrigo

It sounds nice, but the Rachmaninoff Prelude demo clips at 0:28-0:30 https://www.garritan.com/products/cfx-concert-grand-virtual-piano-lite/

I'ts discontinued on quite a few online stores. I guess I arrived too late. I'd totally get it for $20 though 🙃

srodrigo

_sem_ You are leaving me without any options 😉

QuasiUnaFantasia

Sweetwater still sell Garritan CFX.

EDIT: And Thomann too, although they do not seem to sell the "Lite" version

srodrigo

Sweetwater has Lite for $60 🤔 It looks like the only difference with the full version is the mics. I'll give it a proper listen and see.

I'm not in a big rush. I'm not even preparing any recording projects as I've got an actual job and I'm too busy catching up with practice 😃 But I think it'd be good to get a recording setup at some point.

CyberGene

I first bought Garritan CFX Lite when it was released and used it for 1-2 years and was quite happy with it. It contains only the Classic perspective. The Full version includes two other perspectives: the Player (binaural) and Contemporary. I upgraded to the Full one to use the binaural perspective because I thought it would be a big deal but it wasn't and I never used it. The contemporary one is also useless. However, it turns out that the Classic perspective in Full also contains distant microphones in addition to the close ones, whereas Lite contains only the close mics. And surprisingly that turned out to make a serious difference! These distant mics are a pure magic! They add the actual Abbey Road Studios ambiance when mixed with the closed mics and even for that alone Garritan CFX Full is worth it a lot over Lite. In my opinion they should have released something like Lite+ which is still only the classic perspective but with the distant mics added. As a matter of fact, whenever I reinstall my computer and Garritan CFX, I delete the Contemporary and Player perspectives to save space and use only the default Classic one with both distant and close mics enabled and left at their default levels, that's the default patch.

David Lai

I bought Garritan CFX Full on Sweetwater, and it was my first non-Kontakt paid piano VST. I loved it ever since, and still like it when I want a different kind of sound compared to Modern D. But space wise, Modern D is much more SSD friendly, so that's what's on my system now.

jenpal

CyberGene I remember using your Garritan CFX custom fix on my old computer, but I reinstalled Garritan on my new computer, so I no longer have it. Could you kindly direct me on how to apply your custom fix for N1X again?

For over a month or two, Garritan CFX has become my most favourite now after finding out the velocity curve I like. I love the tone, and I also prefer the default classic perspective over the player and contemporary options.

HZPiano

CyberGene abandonware

Wow, I just learned a new word!

🙂

HZPiano

_sem_ functional abandonware

Wow, even better!

😀

CyberGene

jenpal here it is:
https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/710-improve-garritan-cfx-repedaling-behavior

dikrek

Bringing this back on track: After repeated listening, at least to me, this is my best attempt so far to match David's Modern D.

debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-nyd-player.mp3

Should have tamed the harshness, improved the midrange.

@johanibraaten less malm-klang?

@[deleted] still pipes, springs and gongs in the loud passages?

@srodrigo still problem with the attack?

@David Lai - go for it 🙂

Guys, remember - just compare it to the Modern D version, this is the attempt here 🙂

So - minute 2, minute 4 - check the video in the first post, then this version

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