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Studiologic Numa X Piano, Fatar TP/110

RIP

CyberGene They are now available on Thomann and I'm wondering if I should get a Numa X Piano 73.

Doesn't Thomann offer free money-back returns for no reasons? If so, go for it and make a review for us!

If I were you (but I am your doppelganger, not you 🤣) I would not take one with the TP400W action: you already have the N1 and the Cybrid, why are you looking for another grand-piano-like keyboard? I see how instead the TP110 can be more interesting for you by being lighter (one day we'll be back to travelling, isn't it?) and having the aftertouch (which they admitted in previous versions was not easy to control)

CyberGene I was let down by the TP/100LR action which felt overly heavy to play.

Let me help with the Italian, since I think this is tricky for Google to get it right. They don't say that explicitly, but he does say that the goal of the TP100 action was to be light in "transportation" weight of the board and not-too-light in touchweight. That is what he says. My speculation is that for "bragging rights" or simply by overkill (which are both natural things humans do), the design made it "too much" and hence it became "too heavy" instead of "not-too-light". He does not mention anything wrt touchweight being different in the TP110, but if you want I can leave a comment in Italian asking.

One other thing which they do not mention, which in my opinion is essential, is if the aftertouch is polyphonic. Having non-polyphonic aftertouch in a single manual keyboard in my opinion is a moot point. Heck I considered even subpar to have non-polyphonic aftertouch in two-manuals electronic organs with each manual having its own…. But it might be ok for you and for many (mmm, I sound like ✝️ don't I? 🤣 ) since I see many keyboards doing that. Perhaps everybody knows that information from the specs so he did not feel compelled to mention it.


CyberGene

If I get this, it will be for my (well, rare but still existent) jam sessions with some of my friends. Currently I'm using the MODX6 (mostly as a Rhodes/piano board) together with a ASM Hydrasynth (with polyphonic aftertouch!).

As much as I find the sounds in the MODX6 good, it's just the most inhumane user interface and sound architecture ever created. Whenever I have to make a split/layer on the spot, I curse Yamaha designers. And I realize it's a board for a studio where you have all the time in the world to program it by dedicating your life to studying it and reading the reference manual that competes with the Bible on text volume, as well as ask on various forums, including the Yamaha one where the log-in function works 1 out of 10 times, which was admitted even by Bad Mister (the guru of Yamaha programming).

And as much as I may seem like a very tech-savvy person (or do I?) I'm actually a rather dumb keyboard user who has a lifelong problem with long-term memory and I simply can't learn how to use the MODX6 or any other complex board in live situations. I really love the Nord style with very intuitive interface with physical switches, etc. Which is why I'm thinking of replacing the MODX6 with either an Electro/Piano or CP73/88 or YC/61/73/88 although I'm not an organ guy and won't care about tonewheel stuff but who knows... actually I've occasionally used Hammond patches too.

I'm looking for a very lightweight board (even with synth keys) that can cover Rhodes and pianos, but additional sounds such as Hammond, Strings, pads are welcome. I thought the Numa X Piano 73 is a good compromise and having aftertouch may even help in using a software synth on my iPhone and so I can bring only one keyboard for rehearsals and jam sessions.


RIP

CyberGene I thought the Numa X Piano 73 is a good compromise and having aftertouch

Ok, I checked the specs. The Numa X 73 does indeed have the TP110 action. I somewhat thought that it had the TP400. So I agree, I'd give it a try. I am disappointed that the aftertouch is monophonic (which I will mention in the comments at the video).

You did not mention if you want me to ask if the touchweight is substantially different than the TP100, otherwise you won't like it, right?


CyberGene

RIP You did not mention if you want me to ask if the touchweight is substantially different than the FP100, otherwise you won't like it, right?

No need, thanks. I actually asked them a few days ago in their Facbook page but they are not very active.

As to polyphonic aftertouch, there's currently only the Hydrasynth that has it, as well as the CME XKey controllers (I also have one but it's mostly for non-critical applications) but they are for synths. I wouldn't ever expect a hammer action to support polyphonic aftertouch. I believe the venerable Yamaha CS80 synth (made famous by Vangelis in Blade Runner and some other records) is the only one with poly AT and wooden keyboard which is not exactly hammer action but it weightier than a typical synth action. AFAIK, at the time the CS80 had a cost of a new car or even more 😀


CyberGene

My epic journey has no end. So far I purchased a Yamaha YC61 that I loved but returned because I wanted a 73-key hammer action. I then ordered a Yamaha YC73 B-stock which was great but it had a faulty encoder knob. I returned it and ordered a brand new one which was backordered and I was initially promised May 31st but Thomann informed me it would slide one more month and will be available in July 😢 So, I just canceled it and ordered a Studiologic Numa X Piano 73. It has the Fatar TP/110 action which this very discussion is about. It will be in stock on May 6th and should be then shipped to me. Hopefully I will like it 😀


MacMacMac

@CG: How many pianos/keyboards do you own?


CyberGene

MacMacMac Right now just the N1X and an ASM Hydrasynth. And two MIDI keyboards. And Cybrid of course.


MacMacMac

So that makes five, right?


Pete14

I own one, P-515, but if I could -afford it- I’d own 100, and on top of that I’d build a pool in the shape of a piano, adorn the whole of my house with piano paraphernalia, mementos, and all sorts of piano-related themes.

To finish off, I’d surround myself with busts & portraits of the greatest musicians ever to walk amongst us mortals.

Yes, that’s how obsessed I am with this machine called the piano/keyboard, and the people who’ve written great music for it (I don’t care much for other instruments).


CyberGene

I received my Numa X Piano 88 today (well, I initially ordered a Numa X Piano 73 from Thomann but they kept pushing the delivery date, so I checked another European online store: https://www.muziker.de/en and there was an 88 version in stock).

So, this is a

mini review.

Long story short: I have mixed feelings and I am rather disappointed.

Keyboard action

It has the new Fatar TP/110 action. I was afraid it would be the same as the TP/100LR in my SL73 that I hated. I don't have them side by side to compare and I sold the SL73 a few months ago, so it's mostly an anecdotal comparison but I believe the TP110 is an improvement. It's not a huge improvement but is probably slightly less sluggish. Also, it hard bottoms which is something I like (I hate mushy feeling keyboards such as the Kawai ones). However it's still somehow heavy and tiring to play but maybe less so than Yamaha digital piano actions. Also, it pushes back against your fingers which is a complaint I have with all digital piano actions to a certain degree. Furthermore, when playing pianissimo near the rear end of the keys, I often missed notes because either I failed to move the key at all, or moved it only barely. Now, take in mind I'm coming from a very smooth real grand piano action in the N1X and I'm used to a very fine control over all velocities, but still. For comparison, the BHS action in the Yamaha YC73 I returned some time ago (due to a faulty encoder) didn't exhibit that quality and I was able to play pianissimos towards the rear end of the keys. I adapted quickly to the Numa X but I am not sure I was very comfortable. Ultimately I think it's on par with similar digital piano actions in that price range. Could be better, could be worse.

Piano sound

This is the biggest disappointment. All pianos sound thin and dull. Especially in the pianissimo range there some artificiality that reminds me of a digital grand such as Yamaha CP80. I've accused Pianoteq of that but here it's even worse. AFAIK, the piano engine is developed by ex-GEM engineers (remember GEM RealPiano and ProMega series?) and is using samples that are interpolated through some modeling (?) with damper piano resonance being modeled (there's no string resonance though). In a YouTube video one of the engineers explained how they managed to model some spectral stuff, so that instead of using multiple velocity layers, they instead recreated the timbre change through some clever stuff and other mumbo-jumbo which they claim is still sampling but takes much less space than usual. Whatever it is, I couldn't find a model I liked, there are German and American (Steinways), Japan grand, Italian grand, Upright, etc but all of them are dull. They have some control over the engine, such as "tone" which is expected to alter that spectral content but it either makes the piano even duller at low velocities (when decreased), or very bright and rock-piano like at high-velocities (when increased).

Touch response

I found that the default touch-response is not very linear. It wouldn't allow for smooth gradation between ppp and mp. There's some gap there, so when trying to play quietly, I was struggling both with the action (short pivot, initial resistance, constant push-back) but also with inability to precisely control the dynamics. At that point I was already underwhelmed and didn't test with other touch settings... 😕 Just for a comparison, the Yamaha YC73 has very good response at default settings and is a very playable piano with all the piano presets responding perfectly and sounding great. With the Numa X Piano I just couldn't find a piano sound that inspired me sonically and from playability point of view.

Electric pianos

These are fully modeled pianos. I expected to be disappointed which is why I was pleasantly surprised. I found many usable presets with different types of Rhodes, although without effects the raw tone was still somehow strange and having somehow exaggerated Rhodes features. In comparison, the YC73 Rhodes sounds are probably the best I've played in a keyboard. But again, the ones in the Numa are also very usable and nice sounding and I could live with them. I'm not very keen on real Wurlitzer piano sound and other electric pianos, so I can't say if the modeled counterparts in the Numa are good, there are some Pianets, some hybrid FM pianos (sampled FM attacks and modeled electric piano sound), etc.

Other sounds

The organ sounds were rather good, they are sampled, not modeled but there was a great variety, so I think they are better than those in the average rompler keyboards. The rotary effect is also very nice and usable. There are some synth sounds, some are OK, others not so much. There's no monophonic synth leads with portamento which is a let-down. Furthermore, the filter cut-off knob (appears in the so called Zoom mode) is not usable in the traditional way, i.e. you can't use it while playing because it has a clicky feel, has non-linear filter cut-off curve and is steppy. But there are some good pad sounds, brass sounds, choirs, one nice pipe organ... Strings are kind of OK but I think I've heard better. The harpsichord wasn't very convincing because the release sound was too harsh and artificial.

Features, UI, etc.

The included effects are very nice. And you can assign two effects to each of the four zones + two master effects (reverb and delay). The reverb is very nice and lush, better than average. It's easy to create splits and layers. There's embedded USB audio interface but I haven't tested it. There's 2GB of memory (half of which is with factory sounds) and they promise they will release downloadable sounds in future. There's aftertouch and it is rather good and controllable. On many keyboards that support aftertouch, it's like an on/off switch and you have to press so hard that you will hurt your fingers. Not here. The UI and workflow is very intuitive, better than many other boards. It's still not that immediate as a Nord or the Yamaha CP/YC instruments but comes close. There were a few not well-thought things here and there but I believe they may fix them through a firmware update. The josticks that are used for pitch bend and modulation are OK but I still prefer dedicated wheels. Yamaha CP/YC also use similar sticks but they have more travel and feel slightly more controllable. The piano is 14kg which is good for 88 keys. Very compact and built like a tank with metal panels.

Summary

It's a good keyboard which people will love, I'm sure. It has terrific features for its price. The keyboard is fine and the modeled electric piano sounds along with the fantastic effects, compact size, sturdy build and low travel weight, all make for a very good stage piano. However I am disappointed in the acoustic pianos and the touch response with those (but I'm a classical piano aficionado, so maybe I'm biased and spoiled by playing a hybrid...). It's not for me, I packed it already and planning on sending it back.


CyberGene

As a side note, I realize that I may never be too satisfied with digital piano actions. I can even go as far as to declare I prefer a waterfall or synth action for a gigging board, even if it will be used for pianos and Rhodes. You probably remember how much I liked the waterfall organ keyboard in the Yamaha YC61. It's not better than a hammer action for piano sounds but is still good enough to justify the very compact size and low travel weight. If only there was a YC73 with the same waterfall action as the YC61 and not the BHS action. It would be ultra-portable and still very playable. Many people seem to praise the waterfall action in the Vox Continental 73 and it's something I have to try next 🙂


David B

CyberGene It's not for me, I packed it already and planning on sending it back.

☹️

CyberGene Many people seem to praise the waterfall action in the Vox Continental 73 and it's something I have to try next

🙂


CyberGene

Wait for it...

I just returned the Numa X Piano 88 and ordered a Yamaha CP88 instead 🤣 The Yamaha was in stock, so hopefully in a week or so I will have it.


CyberGene

The soap opera doesn't stop! (I've only seen Dave Ferris on PW changing digital pianos so often and going back and forth between the same models).

As I reported here: CyberGene

I sold the CP88 (too heavy as travel weight and too long to fit in my car) and ordered a Numa X Piano 73 this time. Much lighter and should fit in the car trunk. And supposedly they fixed the touch response, already at firmware 2.10 and many people swear that the touch response is much improved over the firmware 1.0 I was when reported the above. So, let's see.

And of course, you can laugh as much as you want, I guess I deserve it 🤣

Update, here’s my review:
https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/858-studiologic-numa-x-piano-73-review


HZPiano

😃😄😁😂😲😋😆😅😂🤣🙃

Well, there you have it…

😇

HZ

PS I hope the 73 fits you, enjoy!


kawafanboi

CyberGene

as long as you go to church yamaha, and confess your sins, yamaha jesus will forgive you.