Mac Mini M1 16GB for VSL?

eddiepiano

Hey,

after making a decision for the piano I want a new system for playing VSTs. It has to be powerful enough for playing back VSL Synchron as I think of purchasing the 280VC, Blüthner or Bösendorfer Upright. It has to be (nearly) silent, that is very important to me.

I use a MacBook Air since 2013 that still holds up today for everyday tasks. I like MacOs and thats why I think of a M1 system. A laptop would be handy since it has a built-in screen, keyboard and mouse but the M1 Air and Pro only have to two thunderbolt ports and no USB and no separate power input and are much more expensive. Of course they are adapters, but the Mac M1 MINI has two thunderbolt ports as well as two USB Ports, a HDMI port for the screen and a separate power input. That seems much more convenient when handling with the hardware needed for VSTs playing: USB Midi, an audio interface, external SSDs an so on.

Is the Mac Mini M1 with 16GB of Ram powerful enough to smoothly run VSL Synchron? I read that it runs Modern U and Garritan CFX very well.

And is it better to buy the 256GB Model plus an external SSD that is always connected via Thuderbolt (much cheaper) or go for the 1 TB model? Which external SSD would you recommend if the first option is better?

Thank you! 🙂

Drew-r

eddiepiano

Season’s greetings, eddiepiano! Please pardon my interruption here, i’ll try to be brief …. i don’t do VIs/VSTs/VSLs or the like ( and i often don’t do brief) , i practically know nothing about them to suitably recommend a new system for running them …. other than saying “ get a good one …. and maybe a surge protector too” … did i say i don’t do VIs? …. but i do do reading of other’s experiences doing them…. i guess you could say i have a passion for reading about other’s passions for doing what i don’t .

What i really want to say is that i am, have been and probably will continue to be mystified by this phenom …. of piano enthusiasts who are so dedicated to the pursuit of their ideals of/for piano sound that they try and try again to achieve that sound seemingly knowing full well ahead of time that the keyboard / piano they did and or are about to buy, again …. and again, will not come with said sound built in, ergo they proactively plan for just using that piano as simply a physical interface to achieving their desired sound externally, virtually, by way of VSTs …. this i find amazing. That’s all i got…..

You are now returned to your VI/VST/System pursuit already in progress ……..

🙂

David B

eddiepiano Is the Mac Mini M1 with 16GB of Ram powerful enough to smoothly run VSL Synchron? I read that it runs Modern U and Garritan CFX very well.

I have a 2018 Mac mini with an Intel i5 and 16GB ram that runs VSL no problem. I can run up to 4 mics and 5 when I use the multiple/core/channel trick.

I'm trading in my Mac mini and Intel MacBook Air for one MacBook Pro. I should know next week how the current 2nd gen M1's run VSL software.

God Bless,
David

MrGr

Drew-r What's the alternative?

eddiepiano

David B, DPPianoPhil Thank you for your experiences! Seems like the M1 is good enough. I wonder if the MacBook Air M1 (that would throttle the CPU a little after a while because of the passive cooling) is good enough? I am not sure if getting an all purpose Laptop that I also use for VSTs (because my MacBook Air 2013 is so old) or a separate Mac Mini for VSTs is the better alternative.

DPPianoPhil

Here is my 2 cents. First of all, like @Drew-r , I don't do VSTs… yet. Heck, I don't even have a proper weighted piano either. But, I can speak for a Mac M1. I got one (iMac 24") almost as soon as they came out in June, after my long in the tooth but loaded 27" from 2011 gave up the ghost. The only CPU intensive tasks I threw at it where compiling code, processing photos, and transcoding videos. This M1 Mac (I got 16GB and 512GB of internal storage, to be safe for at least another 10 years) is by far the fastest computer I ever had: no joke. The new 14 and 16" laptops are even faster! But expensive, and overkill if you are going to attach it to a piano semi-permanently. The Mac mini is ideal for that. Once set-up, use VNC or similar to control it from an iPad or a remote computer: no need for a monitor on top of the piano…

Based on everybody saying they can run any kind of modern VST on a 3-4 years old Intel Mac, I'd say that you'll be very comfortably running all your VSTs on a M1 Mac mini. They are on sale now with a $150-200 discount at Amazon, but that's only the 8GB version: Amazon doesn't sell the built-to-order systems with 16GB. I don't know if that's enough memory long-term and you can't upgrade later either. I would future-proof by getting 16GB, as I did with my iMac, but then again, maybe all VSTs are fine in 8GB: I don't know.

As for storage, if the role of this Mac mini is mostly or only to play VSTs (and you keep it velcro'd under your piano for example), I would go with 256GB and an external SSD, with at least 1000MB/s of throughput. It does not have to be a Thunderbolt drive either: USB 3.2 at 10Gb/s (or 1000MB/s roughly) is fine. I got such a drive. a 2TB one, to keep my photos and be one backup of the main drive for about $400: this thing is tiny! OWC 2TB drive

CyberGene

I have the Air M1 and it's a lovely machine. I use it for work (although I have a monster company provided MacBook Pro that gets too loud and hot when recompiling my project whereas the Air stays cool and is quiet because it has no fan and compiles two times faster). I don't think virtual instruments are that taxing on the CPU, so it should work but I haven't tested it with VSL libraries though. Besides, a native Apple Silicon build is still preferable.

One thing I would suggest is to go with 16GB. It was a mistake I did going with 8GB and I see some problems with my work related stuff since Java is a memory hog.

eddiepiano

Thanks cybergene. These M1 CPUs are quite a thing. I will go with 16GB RAM for future-proofing.

Does such an external SSD work good for VSL and other VSTs? It's USB 3.1.

The T7 has USB 3.2.

Or something like this with Thunderbolt3?:

CyberGene

I use this one. Garritan CFX and Modern U are installed on it.

SanDisk Extreme Portable SSD externe SSD 1 TB (externe Festplatte mit SSD Technologie 2,5 Zoll, 1.050 MB/s Lesen, 1.000 MB/s Schreiben, NVMe SSD, IP55

Gombessa

Maxing put RAM is a good idea, large VSTs are mainly memory-limited. Although my M1 Mac Mini plays Garritan CFX just fine, I like of wish I went for the 16GB rather than the 8GB just in case I switch to something more advanced in the future.

eddiepiano

I decided to go with a stationary machine instead of a Laptop. But I wonder if I might get a much better value/performance for money if I buy/build a regular Windows Machine as a Desktop Tower (+ a very audio affordable Interface like the Focusrite Scarlett or Steinberg) instead of a Mac Mini? I like MacOs better than Windows but for the whole purpose of switching VSTs Windows may be good enough for me. 😉

Could I built a Windows Desktop Computer that can run VSL Synchron Pianos fast and (nearly) silent with 32GB RAM/2TB storage for 1000€ or less? I wouldn't need an extra graphic card, do I?

Gombessa

The rule of thumb is that you CAN get a more powerful Windows machine for less than a Mac at the same cost, but be prepared to spend literally 10x the time getting it running just right. Between 3p drivers, odd OS/hardware/software interactions, indefeatable firmware, etc., you can expect all kinds of one-off, non-repeatable latency issues or pops/cracks and the like.

Macs aren't entirely free of this either, but they're MUCH more plug and play, and it's much more likely that you'll be able to get a smooth running solution without a lot of extras involved.

As to cost, I got an official Apple Refurb Mac Mini M1 8GB for $600, and that's pretty much all I had to buy. It's tiny, even with fans running it's completely silent, and I just velcro'd it to the bottom of my DP, no stray wires no extra hardware, no 3p software other than the VST…I think it would be hard to get as well-integrated a solution out of a PC, at the same size/price (but I'm sure I could get more RAM, larger SSD and a faster GFX card on a PC).

MacMacMac

@Gombessa: I haven't had problems getting virtual instruments running on Windows. The installs are generally straightforward these days. (But that brings to mind the ten-DVD set of Ivory 1 many years ago. It took all day to install, but it worked on the first try.)

And even the Presonus audio interface install was trivial. (But the old driver version that ran on Windows 7 won't run on Windows 10, and the new driver that runs on Windows 10 won't run on Windows 7. I guess that's no surprise, eh?)

And if I were just starting with this stuff today rather than 10+ years ago, I'd probably skip the audio interface altogether. I might just use the built-in interface for audio ... because the Windows WASAPI audio performs much better than the older drivers.

And I'd use USB for MIDI (like everyone else does these days).

But that's my experience with a newish high-end desktop. Which brings me to ...
@eddipiano asked Could I built a Windows desktop ... 32GB RAM/2TB storage for 1000€ or less? I wouldn't need an extra graphic card, do I?
The box I bought four years ago cost 1400 USD. That's not much over your 1000 EUR spec. And it included an expensive graphics card which you would NOT need. Using the built-in graphics would cut several hundred dollars.

My box has only 512 GB SSD and 2 TB HDD. If your 2 TB spec is all SSD, that might cost more. Or it might not because SSDs have quickly gotten cheaper over the last few years. (Does the chip shortage mess this up? Dunno.)

vagfilm

In my view, the M1 is attractive to audio work because it is silent... Getting the same performance and similar silent performance in a windows desktop is not trivial, and won't come cheap. If you are building a pc from scratch, I would go the M1 way (and I really, really, deslike Macs...). On the other hand, if you have old components to reuse, you can assemble an evolutive desktop by fraction of the cost.
I run VSL D274 standard (only 2 mics activated, but I prefer that) on a humble laptop from 2015 (maybe 2014?) with a low voltage i5 cpu, 8gb ram, and internal ssd.

MacMacMac

vagfilm the M1 is attractive to audio work because it is silent

You mean "no fan"? Or something else?

DPPianoPhil

MacMacMac Yes. Even in the systems that do have a fan (the M1 MacBook Air doesn't have one!), it hardly ever comes on and if/when it does it is whisper-quiet. FWIW, I have never heard the fan on my 6-months old M1 iMac (I don't do VSTs yet, as you may recall).

That's because the M1 and its successors like M1 Pro and M1 Max have the most power (in CPU terms) for the least amount of power (in Watts terms). It's also why the M1 laptops can run on battery for up to 20 hours: much better power (Watts) efficiency than Intel processors.

MacMacMac

DPPianoPhil much better power (Watts) efficiency than Intel processors.

It seems Intel has competition coming from all directions.

vagfilm

3 posts above I said that I was running VSL on an 8gb laptop, but I remembered that I upgraded it to 12gb (4 soldered + 8gb dimm). Nonetheless, I tested if the laptop was able to handle the VSL demo before upgrading and buying the d274, and as far as I remember 8gb were ok.
This being said, 16gb is the only spec to consider, particularly if the computer (like mac mini) does not admit ram upgrades. Ram is more critical than cpu (my laptop has a 2 core 2.4GHz i5 4210U; this cpu is as slow as a modern celeron).

eddiepiano

Thank you all for your input! I think I will go with the M1 Mac Mini with 16GB Ram. For storage: To me it seems somehow inefficient to get this super fast and well thought out system and then pair it with an external SSD that only reaches a fraction of the internal SSD speeds and blocks an additional USB-C port (+ reading a lot of complains about problems of users paring the T5 or SanDisk Extreme with a M1). A similarly fast SSD drive with Thunderbolt 3 like the Samsung X5 is not that much less expensive than the internal storage…

So I think of getting a Mac Mini with 16GB and 1TB SSD. I have an external Monitor as well as an Apple trackpad and keyboard already.

DPPianoPhil

eddiepiano The T5 is much slower than the kind of SSD drive I gave you a link too, And that very one was one sale for $350 for 2TB on CyberMonday. It's not Thunderbolt speed (those are another 50% more expensive give or take), but it is much cheaper than the Apple tax for SSD storage…. I see that you already picked up your system, so that's just an FYI. Congrats on the new rig!

vagfilm

VSL synchrons + mac mini 16Gb 1TB + monitor and pad + Roland HP704 = yamaha n1x

Just saying... 😊😊😊

(and I know it is not the same cost, but gets probably close...)

MHirsch

vagfilm I'd rather get a used grand for that money…

eddiepiano

The Monitor and keyboard/trackpad I heave already since few years, so I really woudn't count them.

The HP704 + Mac Mini + the three VSLs are just under 4000€, the Yamaha N1X ist 7500 €, thats almost double the price.