Modern D enhancements

Mindbullets · 2025-07-16T21:54:31+00:00

Saw this on VI Control: Hello all. Some exciting news for Modern D owners and I'm here to pass it along on behalf of Vi Labs: We've been working on an update to the Modern D for several months now to fix the various issues that users reported on forums and by email, the official release will come later this Fall most likely. For now we're doing a soft roll-out to address specific issues, but also to release it before our Summer Sale to avoid customers that would buy it now at full price then be angry with us. Also there still could be some more fixes needed before the official release. We fixed the noise build up when playing a lot of notes and/or using extreme EQ or compression. We also enabled the extra Sympathetic Resonance with pedal down playing like we have in our Ravenscroft 275 and Modern U libraries. Plus there are numerous other bug fixes and general improvements, the full change log will be published with the official release this Fall. The new version is available right now in your VI Labs account, it’s the same link, so use our Installer app or the download page to get it. If you want to keep your old version, simply rename it beforehand by adding 'old' to the filename or such. The new version has the same file name, so any DAW projects will load as expected. Custom drawn Gain Curves will have to be made again since they will not load in the new version, but any other setting from your old presets will. *This update requires the latest version of UVI Workstation V4.0.1 or later, or Falcon 3.1.1 or later.

pc-king

This isn't about the pedal. I've already somewhat qualified my initial concerns about the resonance by noting that the resonance control was probably simply set too high (0 dB).

OlivierW

Dear VI Labs,

First of all, I want to congratulate you on the latest update of Modern D — it’s absolutely incredible. The level of detail, realism, and responsiveness is stunning. You’ve come very, very close to perfection, and I truly appreciate the passion and precision you’ve poured into this instrument.

That said, after extensive playing and comparison with both real pianos and modeling engines like Pianoteq, I noticed a very subtle behavioral detail related to the sustain pedal and sympathetic resonance.
🎹 Sustain Behavior – Minor but Crucial Detail

In a real acoustic piano, there is a distinct difference between:
Playing a note while the sustain pedal is already pressed →
You get the full resonance effect and the sound is open and rich.
Playing a note first, then pressing the sustain pedal afterwards (repedaling) →
The note is held, but no added resonance occurs. The tone remains drier, even though the note sustains.

Currently in Modern D, the resonance samples triggered by the sustain pedal seem to be activated regardless of whether the note was played before or after the pedal is pressed.
This results in an exaggerated sustain resonance in situations where, acoustically, it wouldn’t be present.
✅ Suggested Refinement

It would make Modern D even more realistic if:
Sustain resonance (sympathetic/harmonic) is only applied when the note is played with the pedal already engaged.
In repedaling cases — especially when the note was originally attacked without the pedal pressed — the note should still be held (as it is now), but without triggering the resonance samples.

This tiny nuance makes a big difference in realism, especially for expressive playing and pedal technique.
Again, thank you for your amazing work. Modern D is a joy to play and already stands among the top piano libraries out there. This is just a small suggestion to bring it even closer to the natural behavior of a real grand piano.

Warm regards,
Olivier F.

pc-king

OlivierW I have to disagree. VILabs did a very good job here. Move the pedal start before the note's start, then after the note's start, then a little further back, and so on. You can hear the resonance decreasing more and more. That's how it's supposed to be.

OlivierW

@"rspian"#p46537I’m not talking about this... The sustain resonance has no effect on a real piano (only pedal noise) if the note is played before the pedal is pressed. I'm not referring to repedaling. Repedaling works beautifully in ModernD when the note is played with the pedal down and then followed by several repedalings. I have a real piano next to my digital one, so it's easy to compare in real time : near to near

pc-king

OlivierW "the Sustain resonance have no effect in a real piano" Check your ears. :-)

"i've a real PIANO near my digital. So it's easy to check" So do I. AFK.

OlivierW

pc-king It’s dishonest to take my sentence out of context or shorten it in a misleading way. I never said "the sustain resonance has no effect in a real piano" in isolation or without nuance. What I actually said — and please keep the full sentence to be fair and honest — is:

"The sustain resonance has no effect in a real piano if the note is played before the pedal is pressed — only pedal noise is heard in that case. and i can add (and some global resonance that not depend on the note already played before the Sustain. -> it's the attack in sustain that create harmonics- attack before sustain create less or no resonance harmonics depend on other undampered keys..."

There is no attack that creates sympathetic resonance if the sustain pedal is activated after the attack. That’s why sustain resonance samples can’t be applied in the same way depending on whether the attack happens before or after the pedal is pressed.

So again: please quote my words in full and in context.

David Lai

This is my current understanding of the debate so far. Olivier believes that when the sustain pedal is pressed after you hold a key, that there is still pedal resonance. This is actually normal behavior, and I use this sometimes when I pedal to get a bloom in the sound.

What rspian complains about is the decaying time of certain notes, and how certain notes decay much faster than others.

Well, at the end of the day, piano notes don't sustain like a note played on a bowed instrument. It has to decay. Since this is a sampled VST, it means that an acoustic piano was recorded in a studio space, one key at a time, multiple hits and velocities at a time.

I believe what rspian argues is a non-issue, because if this was already recorded like what you're hearing, then it can only mean one thing -- that was how the piano was sounding like. You can't make what's already recorded produce a slower decay than what's already there, as the piano wouldn't allow it. What rspian objects to is impossible from an acoustic standpoint.

And, as a pianist, I never worry about how fast or slow a single note on a piano is decaying. I just listen to the decay and react my next note to what's been happening. If I want a richer sound, I press down the pedal to give it more bloom and resonance so that the decay can be slower, like in Chopin's F Minor ballade, for example.

Hope this makes sense.

pc-king

more-samples.zip

16MB

Here are five more samples that show how incredibly good the pedal is and what my problem is. 0 dB resonance.

4: dis1, vel. 90, pedal pressed shortly before the note begins and released after a few seconds. Resonance clearly audible.

5: dis1, vel. 90, pedal pressed shortly after the note begins and released after a few seconds. Resonance barely audible, but still there.

6: Like 4, but without pedal: just for comparison.

Up to this point, unlike Olivier, I would say that this is completely realistic.

7: Like 4, but cis1: When the pedal is released, everything collapses.

8: cis1, vel. 90, without pedal, and then after a few seconds the pedal is pressed: The sound that had already disappeared returns. Oh, miracle.

So, I say 7 and 8 are unrealistic, and I initially assumed, probably wrongly, that it was due to the resonance implementation. Other commenters believe this actually happened with the recorded instrument, or that it doesn't really matter. I hope VILabs reads this and does their own research. Thanks to my precise information, everything is reproducible.

QuasiUnaFantasia

David Lai You can't make what's already recorded produce a slower decay than what's already there, as the piano wouldn't allow it.

Now, I have not read this entire thread, so what I state here may be entirely pointless in the larger context, but the idea that a sample from an acoustic piano has a certain decay, and nothing can change that, is definitely not correct. In post-processing anything can be done.

I include a small snippet of sound based on a sample I did for a piano; the file includes two renditions of it: first with a shortened sustain, and then with a prolonged sustain. I only include a few seconds of each, because that should be adequate to illustrate my point.

short-sustan-and-long-sustain.mp3

EDIT: I apologize for the typo in the file name.

OlivierW

David Lai No, that’s not quite it — I was actually clear about this: I’m saying that the resonance is not the same in amplitude depending on whether the note is played with the pedal already down, or if the pedal is pressed after the note is struck. That makes a big difference!

On a real acoustic piano, the mechanics make these two cases behave very differently in terms of resonance and harmonic richness. But in Modern D, both situations are treated the same way, as if they were equivalent — which is not true to how a real piano responds.

pc-king

OlivierW Please listen to my samples - they are NOT treated the same way.

pc-king

OlivierW As a physicist and classically trained pianist, I can tell you that energy is still being released even after the key has been pressed, and that when the dampers are raised, this MUST cause other strings to vibrate.

David B

OlivierW However, it is possible that in the lower notes (1/2/3) in Modern D , the sustain sample transition effect is too pronounced, and the tone changes too much during the transitions from pedal down → up → down while the key remains pressed.

This seems to be the issue. I've never played a real steinway D before so I assumed this behavior was normal. Pedal down, note triggered and held, pedal released = too exaggerated of a volume change. The volume almost disappears on some notes.

I can only compare it to the midsize Yamaha at my church. While there is significant volume and tonal change executing the above example, it seems to be more exaggerated on the Modern D.

@pc-king example number 7 seems to give a good example of what I would consider too excessive of a tonal and volume change. Here is rspian's #7 example with pedal down, key pressed and held, pedal released = too excessive of a volume/tonal change. Like he said, "when the pedal is released, everything collapses."

example-7.mp3

Is it normal on a steinway D for the tone to practically disappear in the scenario of pedal down, note triggered and held, pedal released?

pc-king

David B I don't know why it's like this. But it should be fixable.

To clarify: Samples 1-3 are without a pedal.

All I know is that, unfortunately, I can't switch to Modern D yet, even though I really like the sound with Synchron Stage Reverb Lite. I've painstakingly outsmarted or covered up all of VSL's amateurish and embarrassing flaws. I had to overlook the fact that they are not cooperative at all and think they are the GOAT. Transferring a 5-hour repertoire to MD with a new velocity curve and manual adjustments is only worthwhile if MD is nearly perfect.

CyberGene

I haven't read the discussion and the arguments, however I just listened to the above example posted by @David B and it doesn't sound right. The note should continue sounding with its regular decay, and only the damper resonance should be cut. Here the entire note is being cut which is wrong.

BTW, before that new version was announced, I was contacted by VI Labs who thanked me for my re-pedaling report some time ago because it helped them track some issues with their pedaling logic and assured me that this new versions is better than ever in terms of re-pedaling and other piano specific behavior. They wanted me to test and confirm, however I had already sold my license to @pianow , so I replied that I wouldn't be able to do so. There were some talks between @David Lai and Lance to provide me some not-for-resale license, and if that happens then I might be able to test the new version but in any case I've not been having enough free time as of late to use virtual pianos and I only rarely play the onboard N1X piano sound, so it's OK. But it's great that VI Labs listened to the feedback and provided so many fixes. Kudos to VI Labs 👏🏻

With the above in mind, and since it's still a beta (?), you may want to approach VI Labs regarding that new issue.

David B

CyberGene I haven't read the discussion and the arguments, however I just listened to the above example posted by @David B and it doesn't sound right. The note should continue sounding with its regular decay, and only the damper resonance should be cut. Here the entire note is being cut which is wrong.

I haven't tested every note on the keyboard because I've been extremely busy. However, I can see that this is more pronounced on some notes compared to others. The notes don't continue ringing with their - what I would assume to be - normal decay in the pedaling scenario I mentioned. I wish you still had your license because you could really ascertain the problem and give the appropriate feedback. I don't have the experience to know what's really normal and what's not.

God Bless,
David

pc-king

And for the new velocity curve, I'd definitely need those glancing bars for the currently played notes while playback is running. VSL has that. It breaks my heart to say it, but it's great! And I want to add fixed points connected by straight lines. That's all from me. Have a good rest.

_sem_

I've tested the 1.1 briefly. Overall I think it isn't much different - I can't compare because I've overwritten the previous version. It remains the best VST piano I've played, but not without flaws. It still tends to work great with some pieces and not so well with others, probably depending on which registers get more use. I don't have enough experience to pinpoint what is wrong. This may be about short sustain in some higher notes. Maybe it is an inherent property of the sampled piano, IDK. I think this is related to the basic note sounds, not the pedalling performance, though resonances may be involved.

vagfilm

pc-king my bad…

SH4DOW

I was hoping the new version would of fixed the short note decay issue, tested it, still there.
Really makes the Piano feel dead and lifeless when I hit those notes, imo.

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