Pianoteq or sampled libraries?

Nik

Greetings to you readers,
I’m considering purchasing a new VST, and Pianoteq has caught my attention. On the forums, I’ve read various pros and cons compared to using a sampled library, and one of my main doubts was about the sound quality, which initially didn’t fully convince me. However, after listening to some demos of older versions and comparing them to the more recent ones, I’ve noticed a significant improvement. I would primarily use it for practicing, as the feel it provides on my keyboard is very similar to that of an acoustic piano. In your opinion, could this be a valid choice? Do you think the gap in terms of sound will be further reduced in the coming years?

johanibraaten

I’m certain that both modeled and sampled libraries will improve over time. However, my suggestion would be to not put too much trust into other peoples opinions but instead try out both Pianoteq and some good sample library. Pianoteq offers an excellent demo version but when it comes to sample libraries it can be tricky to find companies that provide demos. However one company that do just that is VSL. They offer 30 days demo versions of their products. They do it regularly but not all the time and if you want to try their products at some moment when they don’t offer demos you can email them and they will probably give you a demo licence. They also have a 14 days return policy if you purchase a product and then change your mind. There are also some companies like IK multimedia that offer subscription models where you can sign up for a month so you can try their products without loosing too much money.

Good luck, there are many great products out there.

Pete14

It is not often that I chime in; especially on matters involving Pianoteq & Sound (quality); however, I do feel I little giddy today, so here it goes:

Pianoteq, as you say, has improved significantly, and I’m expecting further improvements for the upcoming version 9, so you couldn’t possibly go wrong (no matter what they say), if you’re willing to do some tweaking; which I assume you are; and don’t get me wrong, Pianoteq is now much better “out of the box,” but sometimes (depending on your setting) a little tweaking can make all the difference in the world…….IMHO!

David Lai

Nik Welcome to the forum! I recommend sample libraries over PianoTeq. The sound of PianoTeq is far from inspiring, very metalic and harsh, and quite a bad synth. There have been improvements over the years, but rather stagnant. The only positive thing about PianoTeq is it responds to velocity very well.

On the other hand, you get both realism and expressiveness in sample libraries, and some top library makers are very good with playability.

I would highly recommend Modern U and Modern D from VI Labs. The former is an upright piano sample, and the latter is a Steinway D sample. I use both, the D more often, for both practice and performance preparation, and I also use the D on Youtube videos. They are a great balance of both playability and realism. You won't go wrong with either or both.

Pete14

Interesting, David, but I noticed how your “opinion,” which was not humble, failed to mention the fact that VI-Labs offers no such thing as a trial, so, if you don’t mind, I’d like to mention it:

No free trial for MD/MU!

David Lai

Pete14 please excuse my typing on the phone for this post.

on the contrary, you chime in quite often in discussions like this!

Despite the fact that I really disagree with you on the issue of Pianoteq, and that’s not an opinion but a fact that we disagree on that sound quality, what is true cannot be false and what is false cannot be true, you got one thing right, and that is no free trial for most sample library makers, including VI Labs.

That said, one can’t go wrong with either of the sample libraries I recommended for both realism and playability. I buy their libraries blind when I first started with Ravenscroft. But now they’ve got better products, so I would advise to skip it, especially if one isn’t into that rather particularly bright sound.

RIP

Nik my main doubts was about the sound quality

This is an extremely personal thing. Some people (like David Lai) really hate Pianoteq sound. Some others (you can find plenty of them on its forum) love it. Some others like yours truly feel like Pianoteq is adequate and no better (but importantly no worse) than others.

I've come to the conclusion that this must be a hearing issue (in fact I had my hearing tested, but I digress).

So back to your question, download Pianoteq demo, which is fantastic, and see if you like, dislike or are okay with its sound. And be wary of those who say that they know better, because they might know what is better for them but for sure they don't know what is better for you. Then how do you compare with other things that do not offer a demo? In my personal opinion, if a software company is so condescending to not offer a demo, it does not deserve my attention let alone my money. My opinion, yours might be different

David Lai

RIP In my personal opinion, if a software company is so condescending to not offer a demo, it does not deserve my attention let alone my money. My opinion, yours might be different

My opinion, and this is indeed an opinion, is that through listening to audio and video demos, the piano can speak for itself. That was how I started to get attracted to the libraries I now use. And reading forums like this would also help, because some users would talk about issues in these products. If it bothers you, then the product isn't for you. But if you feel you can work with it, then still keep it on the list. That's how I shop. Rarely anything is offered demos these days, from hardware to software.

David Lai

Nik So going back to the OP. Coming from a professional pianist / piano student's point of view, you won't go wrong with good sample libraries like Modern D and Modern U. Garritan CFX would also rank up there, but VI Labs can add resonances as you pedal, instead of using specific samples like Garritan.

CyberGene

With Pianoteq it’s a matter of a few minutes to know whether you can tolerate its sound peculiarities. Since there’s a free demo that is small in size, it’s a no brainer to test it and see if you’re one of those lucky people who are not fatigued by Pianoteq. If that’s the case, congratulations, you’d be in for a treat, it’s a well-made software that can serve you well for your purposes. Unfortunately, that has never been the case for me 😕 Garritan CFX is the best software piano for me, it has the best playability and pedaling for my taste and the CFX timbre is my favorite (I prefer real CFX to real Steinway).

QuasiUnaFantasia

CyberGene With Pianoteq it’s a matter of a few minutes to know whether you can tolerate its sound peculiarities.

I can actually play Pianoteq for an hour without going crazy* (for a whole year I only used Pianoteq version 6, then discovered sample libraries).

*After an hour I start getting a strong distaste for the entire universe and have to go out into nature for a while, in order to become myself again.

Pete14

Why the passive-aggressiveness, you two?

By saying that some people can “tolerate” it, you are saying that it, Pianoteq, is innately bad, and it’s just a matter of how much “bad” a person can tolerate on any given day.

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 I think it is more along the lines of an allergy; I don't think Pianoteq is inherently bad at all; I can tolerate it in smaller dosages, but it quickly becomes too much.

David Lai

Pete14 Pete, you need to understand that what is true cannot be false, and what is false cannot be true. To put it in a religious quote, a good tree can't bear bad fruit, and a bad tree can't bear good fruit.

PianoTeq, with its synthetic sound quality and unpianistic tamber, is a bad representation of the piano sound in terms of realism. Though it has generally good playability, the tone becomes unbearable for most of us who play music. And I'm only doing something for the OP to make sure he can get a good experience using piano VSTs. PTQ in the long run won't be that VST, and he should understand that.

So please stop pedaling PianoTeq, because it's really terrible, especially for regular people like me. As for you, you can stay in your own metalic, synthy corner and enjoy the beauty (if there's any to speak of) of PianoTeq…

pianow

Nik

if you only want to practice, then the modartt pianoteq is the way to go, but if you're like me, and the sound is a "VERY" important aspect for you, then you must try some high end sampled libraries, i'd recommend the native instruments and the vienna symphonic library (because both of them offer demo licenses)

i can also give you some of my favorites :

vilabs modern d (highly playable and realistic sounding, and it is the closest to a real grand in terms of features)

ni noire (a perfect allrounder with a perfect tone and recording quality, i'd get it instead of everything on the market)

pianoteq 280vc (the best ptq model so far, i like the clear tone and powerful dyn range)

ni claire (the most versatile one - you can make it sound like every key instrument but as far as a basic piano sound goes… meh)

vilabs modern u (a very cute sounding upright, and my favorite u p on the market with all the good features of modern d)

ni definitive collection (this one (three) is the best price to value on the market imo…

grandeur (very clean and warm sound, it's the best {among these three btw} when you're working on a modern arrangement

gentleman (i know people who swear by this one when it comes to making music)

maverick (a dark yet alive piano sound, very different then others but still quite useable on cinematic scores)

…

and now if you want to spend a significant amount of money on a virtual piano there's only one company that you should look into. vsl (vienna symphonic library) and my recommendations are :

yamaha cfx (arguably the best piano on the market)

bosendorfer imperial (rivals the cfx with some minor differences but has a warmer tone)

fazioli f308 (a linear sounding piano but with a lot of depth and presence)

steinway concert d (the most spacious and 3d concert piano i'm aware of but it has a sharp tone to it)

bosendorfer 280vc (very tight and in your face with a big dyn range, but the tone is quite intense)

fazioli f212 (very rounded and different, it is the calmest of all synchrons but the dyn range is limited)

bosendorfer upright (quite warm and mix ready, it is my second favorite digital upright)

c.bechstein (german) upright (a more colorful version of the bosie upright but it has less warmth to it)

bluthner grand (early 1900 cinema haha - it's beautiful)

hope that helps 🙂

RIP

David Lai PianoTeq, with its synthetic sound quality and unpianistic tamber, is a bad representation of the piano sound in terms of realism.

For you! I hear different characteristics but equally synthetic in all virtual piano libraries. We just hear things differently.

David Lai So please stop pedaling PianoTeq, because it's really terrible, especially for regular people like me. As for you, you can stay in your own metalic, synthy corner and enjoy the beauty (if there's any to speak of) of PianoTeq…

And with all due respect, please stop thinking that everybody hears what you hear, because many people don't. I'm even willing to admit that you probably hear much better than "regular people" so that perhaps your opinion is a more "scientifically accurate" one. But this is not about science, it's about what people enjoy and if some people enjoy Pianoteq, you should respect that.

QuasiUnaFantasia

RIP Yes, after all it is a matter of taste, and I also would suggest giving Pianoteq a go. The download for the demo is rather small, and it is almost fully functional, so it is possible to get a very good feel for how it performs.

As mentioned, I used it for a year, and I was a happy camper.

David Lai

RIP Thanks for your reply. I don't disrespect other people's preferences. The issue I have with pete is that he seems to doubt sampled libraries and what they're good for, while always upholding PianoTeq is the best thing out there. What's more, he plays devel's advocate too much, often saying the opposite is true. Lastly, I don't know if he ever plays the piano, as he talks usually in a cynical attitude towards the composers and music most of us play and enjoy. When a new person comes and wants advice, they should listen to all things, but they need to be careful of Pete's opinions, as they may contain thoughts that are only true to himself. So I was very intense about it.

Pete14

David Lai So please stop pedaling PianoTeq, because it's really terrible, especially for regular people like me.

So now you want me to “stop pedaling” Pianoteq, but how am I supposed to sustain notes/chords?

The nerve!

Nik

Thank you all for your responses. I downloaded the demo and tried it out, and I must say that I feel more comfortable with Pianoteq. I have the VSL CFX, and I really like the sound, but in terms of feel, I don’t connect with it as much as I do with Pianoteq, and the sound of Pianoteq works perfectly for me. I’m also curious to play around with the settings. Additionally, after browsing through some forums, I noticed that VSL hasn’t handled certain parameters for their pianos well, such as SYMPATHETIC RESONANCE. With Pianoteq, it’s possible to improve these parameters. Here’s a demonstration video on YouTube if you’re interested: [link]. So, my thought process is this: practice with Pianoteq, and then if I want a more realistic sound, I can switch to VSL and enhance these parameters with Pianoteq. It would be a shame to abandon a library I paid for or not fully utilize it. Let me know if my reasoning is flawed. Also, I’d like to ask how to properly set up the velocity curve? I can’t find a specific guide on how to do it.