Recordings of different acoustic piano brands/models

CyberGene · 2024-12-06T21:40:15+00:00

I’m currently watching the French TV channel Mezzo where a pianist (David Bismuth, unknown to me) is playing a Mozart sonata on a C.Bechstein grand piano. Frankly speaking, the piano tone is a bit harsh for my taste but is nevertheless very informative, because it’s rare to hear good classical recordings played on something different than a Steinway. Let’s share other videos with high quality piano recordings (preferably of live solo piano classical performances) to gather more data about all the various piano brands and if they have any specifics in sound signature. Or even just for fun, since how a piano sounds depends on many other factors, probably voicing, microphones, acoustics, etc. Feel free to post any brand, of course Steinway too 😃 Also, I’d be interested in comments and opinions, so that we can establish what is “nasal”, bright, soft, woody, metallic, etc.

HeartKeys

pipAT Yeah, piano taste is very personal.

Agreed. It’s fair to say that, especially the flagship of each reputable maker, is a— or the— dream piano for many, and for different reasons, and mostly subjective and perception reasons.

Throw me a blind test of a F308, CFX, 280VC, SK-EX, and I’m content with any of them.

HeartKeys

You might also find the link below very informative as far as the tone of many concert pianos. Hi fidelity recordings of renown pianos.

http://soundmedia.jp/nuaudktua/

dore_m

CyberGene I'm starting to wonder if "nasalness" is caused by a specific recording/miking technique, somehow boxy and almost mono-like quality to the sound, lack of spatial wideness. I get this here very strongly.

I wonder if this is more a function of your ears that is accentuated by the mic'ing technique? I myself have recorded keys that drive me crazy because I detect "nasalness", and when I play that key on the real piano, it's not nearly as annoying or not annoying at all. Could be the way sound enters the mic and is reproduced as point sources in speakers rather than the natural sound which has quite a large dispersion from the soundboard. Or particular resonances that are inherent to the mic or room or your ears...

jdg78

Among the "Big Name" classical pianists, the only one I'm aware of that plays Kawai pianos almost exclusively at this point is Mikhail Pletnev. Here's a performance on what I assume is an SK-EX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eShOYf4ljbY

dore_m

QuasiUnaFantasia Here's a Mason & Hamlin Artist Series 160; pianist not known to me playing "When I fall in love". The audio quality is not top notch, but I love the sound of that piano:

Interesting you pointed to that video - I hadn't see it or kept up with the MH website. But that's essentially the environment I'd be in if I recorded their concert grand out there in Haverhill/Boston. The mics are not in the camera shot, and you can hear a lot of the reverberation from the brick. Might be challenging to record there.

johanibraaten

I think this Steingraeber/Phoenix is a solid sounding piano. I believe that the tenor is somewhat the most critical range on a piano and on this model it sounds beautiful. I’ve never played a Steingraeber /Phoenix in real life though.
https://youtu.be/rCqgpt3KGEc?si=la9GvcOnPm2LGAl_

HZPiano

CyberGene And since it doesn't have the typical oval (slightly forward at the top) pointed cheeks of the CFX, I would assume it's their previous flagship, the CFIIIS

🙂 So far I went through the same reasoning. If correct, I'm a fan of that model. This piano is one of the best matches for my piano taste.

Of course it's also preparation, voicing etc. so it's never "just" the model.

I watch "Podium Klassiek" every week, and boy do I miss that Yamaha 😢 this current season.

Cheers!

HZPiano

johanibraaten I believe that the tenor is somewhat the most critical range on a piano

It's interesting that you mention this.

It is often that tenor region that breaks the enjoyment of a particular piano for me. Of course not just the tenor, but certainly more often than other regions.

Cheers,

porco_rosso

jdg78 Excellent effortless performance! The Shigeru sounds good, rather warm, but not outstanding.

The best sounding piano in this thread is imo the Yamaha CFX played by Pires. I prefer the tone of a good CFX VST over a Steinway VST too.

CyberGene

porco_rosso exactly my opinion 👍🏻

Pete14

porco_rosso I prefer the tone of a good CFX VST over a Steinway VST too.

And here, I never thought we’d agree on anything……go figure!

BTW, the CFX “acoustic” can run circles around the Steinway D, and it all comes down to one simple thing:

Unlike Steinway, Yamaha does not see itself as an extension of the gods; therefore, it doesn’t sit around asking for them very gods to “make things better,” but rather it, Yamaha, drops to its knees and gets the job done (sans divine intervention)…..

Of course, Steinway will still cost you more (overall), but they are slowly losing the grip they’ve had on us, and their “hand-made” BS is showing, so I’d say they get with the times (robotics), drop their prices & the attitude, and hope for the best!

CyberGene

This might be a myth but some people (envious Steinway people?) say Yamaha couldn’t make CFX so good without obtaining the Bösendorfer secrets first. Even if that’s true, I double dare you: disassemble your precious Bösie, analyze it and start making great pianos. Doesn’t work? You can’t reassemble it back and now have a bunch of firecrackers? Then respect Yamaha!

Pete14

CyberGene Then respect Yamaha!

This! 😁

It’s about time Yamaha got some r-e-s-p-e-c-t!

HeartKeys

CyberGene some people (envious Steinway people?) say Yamaha couldn’t make CFX so good without obtaining the Bösendorfer secrets first

Who are those some people? I hadn't heard this myth within my bubble. Though I'm not an "envious Steinway person."

I think Yamaha acquiring Bosendorfer is more of a correlation of their continued piano expertise and innovation, versus reliance on Bosendorfer.

Whoever actually holds and believes such myth that you're referencing have some interesting logic 🙂

Anyway, from my experience with CFX vs Model D, I've leaned towards CFX most of my life, though my experience with Model D's were mostly NY ones, which didn't suit my taste. To each their own.

jdg78

HeartKeys CyberGene

I'm also a CFX fan, and probably prefer its tone to any other grand currently on the market, at least that I'm familiar with.

But prior to the CFX, I would not have expected Yamaha to emerge as a favorite, as up until that point I'd probably played on more Yamahas than any other brand and generally found them not to my taste (usually rather bright, pop/studio type instruments, or basic practice uprights).

As for the Bosendorfer "secret sauce," I have also heard that the Yamaha engineers spent quite a bit of time at the Bosendorfer factory post acquisition, and incorporated certain design elements and European parts into the new CFX, which was being designed at around the same time. So I don't know if it is a "myth" or not, but it certainly is at least believable given that the CFX was first introduced about 4-5 years after the Bosendorfer acquisition.

In any case, a CFX actually sounds nothing like a Bosendorfer, so even if they did incorporate certain technologies, they certainly weren't trying to mimic or copy it.

johanibraaten

CyberGene This might be a myth but some people (envious Steinway people?) say Yamaha couldn’t make CFX so good without obtaining the Bösendorfer secrets first.

An official Yamaha center that I know once said to me that Yamaha did implement some patents from Bösendorfer in their "X"-lines of C, S and CF pianos. According to them the most important change from previous generation is how the soundboard is tapered.

Johnstaf

HZPiano It is often that tenor region that breaks the enjoyment of a particular piano for me. Of course not just the tenor, but certainly more often than other regions.

Same here. It's the tenor or a full-sized concert grand that makes the most difference to me. There's some level of honk in most smaller grands.

While the low bass obviously differs, I'm not as interested in the bottom octave (or or top octave) as I am in the tenor.

Johnstaf

CyberGene This might be a myth but some people (envious Steinway people?) say Yamaha couldn’t make CFX so good without obtaining the Bösendorfer secrets first. Even if that’s true, I double dare you: disassemble your precious Bösie, analyze it and start making great pianos. Doesn’t work? You can’t reassemble it back and now have a bunch of firecrackers? Then respect Yamaha!

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to just buy a Bösendorfer Imperial to take apart than buying the whole company? 🤣

The structural differences in Bösendorfers have always been well known. I wonder if there are any secrets. 🤔 Steinway makes a big deal about keeping their soundboard construction techniques a secret, but it's probably trying to create mystique. AFAIK the CFX isn't a Bösendorfer type design, which would differ in the way the vibrations from the soundboard are transmitted to the case. I think Bösendorfer is the only remaining company that makes pianos the way it does.

I can't imagine Yamaha needing to learn anything about pianos from another company, but I could be wrong. 🤣

Pete14

Johnstaf Steinway makes a big deal about keeping their soundboard construction techniques a secret, but it's probably trying to create mystique.

Bingo!

As far as I’m concerned, they’ve a room filled with tiny, little elves cutting off pre-measured soundboards; then passing these on to a huge ogre that goes on to tape(r) the boards with off-the-shelf gorilla-glue to piano-shaped things…..

There’s no “mystique” other than some elves gone missing (presumably eaten by the huge ogre), and no, the ogre looks nothing like “Shrek,” but rather more like our own Mac-III; heck, one could even think the Ogre & Mac are one and the same!

Once again, Steinway’s so-called “mystique” is crumbling down, and once this facade is totally demolished, it will be confirmed just how basic, obsolete, and overpriced these machines are.

P.S.

I apologize for the mild rant, but I truly hate Steinway & Friends, and I can’t wait for the day the authorities take hold of these elf-slaving crooks and locks them up along with Mac (the ogre)! 😆

HZPiano

Johnstaf some level of honk

Yes exactly, that honk… 😬.

Cheers,

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