VSL Steinway D-274 (one year review)

pianow

hi everyone
after one year that I've been using this instrument and after so many different feelings that i had for it in different times, i think it's a good time to write about it

as many of you already know, the vsl steinway d is not an easy instrument to play and of course not an easy tool to work with, it has one of the worst out of the box playing experiences, the mp-mf range is overpowered and feels like f-ff range and that makes it sound thin and unrealistic, but after some "heavy" tweaking it works perfectly fine,
long story short...i had some mixed feelings for this one
but after a year of love and hate
i can absolutely say that it has a place in my favourites.
for those who want to go for it, BUY THE F-FULL VERSION
the standard isn't enough with this one
i always mix all the close mics to get a good and decent sound out of any Synchron piano, including the d274

i find that the INTIMATE SUR TO STEREO is a very good place to start (at least for my taste)

anyway, the thing that made me love it at last is that it has a very different sound then any other stage a pianos and it's quite usable as a member of a collection, and more importantly it sits in different mixes very well, another plus for d274 is that it has the widest dynamic range among its bros and sisters, another one is that it has a nice stereo image and it's truly immersive

I'm happy to say it's now one of my favourites from the vsl

HeartKeys

mixed feelings for sure. great that you like it now, but sad to me that it took that amount of work to practically "correct" so many imperfections! 🙂

honestly for me, i just either 1) don't have the competency; or 2) time/ effort; or 3) both; to tweak settings to get the ideal state. Fortunately, I actually find the D-274 decent without tweaking, in the surround concert setting.

The Fazioli F308 on the other hand.......

David Lai

Well, I only have the standard version, unfortunately. Haven't really been able to create a good tone out of it. Now it's sitting there gathering dust…… Luckily there are other sample libraries that quickly rose to the occasion to replace it in my laptop, for the lack of a better verb.

But I'm glad you made it work for you! It's just a bit more money than what I can / would like to pay at this point of my life.

johanibraaten

pianow When I tried out all the Synchron pianos a few years ago (they didn't have the Faziolis at the time) I found the Steinway to have the least amount of artifacts from a sound perspective of all the pianos. It seems to be a quite well tuned and voiced piano (although the voicing can be a bit on the cold and sterile side). I found all the other pianos to have some annoying voicing or tuning problems or both. I also still like the Steinway tone the most when I hear demos of the Synchron pianos (not necessarily their own demos) and I like that the Steinway is placed at the center of the stage while recorded. However, as you describe and many others with you, the velocity mapping is a bit weird and I found it a little "slow" that made it hard with thrills and repeated notes. I ended up going for the CFX for its superior playing respons but that one has other issues.
It's nice that you got it to work as it can be a great sounding instrument.

OlivierW

VSL D-274 with Pianoteq 8 for Resonances, releases, repedalling in LOGIC 11 (only on mac)

Same approach than Ivory 3, but better :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6goKTEMAZ68

Pete14

Please pardon my ignorance, but how do you only use “resonance, release, pedaling” from Pianoteq, and leave everything else out?

I used to blend Pianoteq with my on-board CFX, but I was blending the “whole” of both instruments, and your experiment (“only what you want to use”) seems quite interesting…..

BTW, you might’ve missed it in the editing, but the “open windows” are covering your face, so perhaps you’d want to move them a little to the left/down/right?

pianow

HeartKeys Fortunately, I actually find the D-274 decent without tweaking, in the surround concert setting.

The Fazioli F308 on the other hand.......

really happy to hear that buddy
for some heavy actions/keyboards it's really good out of the box, but for for lighter actions like mine it's a very hard edged and brutally bright piano, it can be a pain in the a$$ sometimes
i was reminded of a gta v quote when Jimmy was trying to say "love you" to his dad Michael : i donno if i love you but I'm pretty sure i hate you a little bit💀😂

and there's the f308, it's the least inspiring instrument to begin with, their steinway has lots of charms and it definitely worth the work around, but with f308
it's a 3 meters long worth of disappointed (i destroyed English language with this one for sure 💀)

so i completely agree with you on that one

pianow

David Lai Well, I only have the standard version, unfortunately. Haven't really been able to create a good tone out of it

i think this is also true with other stage a pianos (except maybe the cfx)
even the famous imperial didn't inspire me when i tried the standard version
especially when I wanted to make a fairly close mix, the single close mic is rather punchy and bodyless Which is not surprising considering where they actually are (right about the hammers)

HeartKeys

pianow for some heavy actions/keyboards it's really good out of the box, but for for lighter actions like mine it's a very hard edged and brutally bright piano

Ah yes good point. I have a Kawai VPC1 which feels on the heavier side to me, which works well with 274 🙂

pianow

johanibraaten

johanibraaten When I tried out all the Synchron pianos a few years ago (they didn't have the Faziolis at the time) I found the Steinway to have the least amount of artifacts from a sound perspective of all the pianos. It seems to be a quite well tuned and voiced piano (although the voicing can be a bit on the cold and sterile side)

i personally don't have a single issue with some notes being slow out of tune, but that comes from a perspective : I played so many crappy instruments in real life and artifacts on a sampled piano reminds me of those real experiences, but anyway it has a very familiar tone, i demod all the stage a pianos a year ago and immediately i was like wow that steinway really sounds better then others, and it really is better then others in some areas, but my first three picks are imperial, cfx, 280vc

those are fantastic, but i even tweaked some of their parameters, I'm so picky when it comes to piano sound

pianow

johanibraaten found it a little "slow" that made it hard with thrills and repeated notes. I ended up going for the CFX for its superior playing respons but that one has other issues.

i also think that it's a little slower then others, i don't know if it's a scripting bug or the attack of the instrument is a little slow as well, anyway it plays a bit different then other Synchrona especially the 280vc is a fast mf when it comes to playability
it's really my favourite Synchron piano by far

btw the cfx is goat, I'm happy for you, I wouldn't care for some out of tune notes

pianow

OlivierW
great video man keep it up
I'd like to know how can someone do the same in the fl studio?
it's a very good technique to improve the behaviour of the Synchron pianos (of course vsl must fix their shitty resonance modeling)

OlivierW

Thanks : i can only do this with LOGIC 11, because i use a script to avoid VSL Sustain samples and create silent key. (All sustain repedalling is done with SSR resonance of pianoteq).

Yes Sympathetic resonance in VSL is fake, and they use sustain samples so that you can't have transition in real time between pedal up/down. (that's why i disable VSL sustain samples with a script and i use sustain modeling with Pianoteq that have a new option to create OVertones from an external sampled piano in a DAW with chained audio)

pianow

HeartKeys
bro got the best midi keyboard on the planet and still wondering why things are working perfectly for him💀

i couldn't stop the typical_youtube_bullshit my dear friend😂

OlivierW

Pete14

It's a new function in Pianoteq 8. Only inside a DAW like LOGIC PRO 11 : "chained audio"

Pianoteq generate Resonance modelling (Overtones and full overtones and releases) with the chainded audio in VSL.

You just have to set midi curve to 1 in Pianoteq to mute internal PIANO and just trigger overtones rules with Pianoteq silent keys, and PIANOTEQ with just resonate with VSL via new chained option. (don't work with Standalone Pianoteq)

klausi6

@OliverW Thank you very much for this incredible setting. The piano get so much more life.

Is this comparable to Ivory 3?

David Lai

klausi6 Yes, except una corda. It's one thing I'll always have against VSL Synchron pianos.

pianow

David Lai
i think they can make it work with modeling, i mean if you calculate all the little changes that the padal is doing on the real piano and you have some very authentic samples, you can do it
now i don't wanna oversimplify it, it's a lot of work and it's definitely changes from piano to piano
but i think it can be a combination of these :

different frequency response (eq), different attack and decay behaviour (envelope), different touch response,(velocity)

what do you think David?

David

David Lai

pianow wait, do we have the same name? That’s pretty cool! 🙂

OK, my actual thoughts about this is, I guess because I’m spoiled by sample libraries that have actual una corda samples, I believe, nothing beats realism. That’s my thought. 🙂 VSL currently do have some form of una corda simulation, but it sounds like the soft pedal on an upright piano, not actual tone and color change on a grand piano.

OlivierW

All VSL D-274, files for MAC/LOGIC 11 /PIANOTEQ, and fixed velocity curve

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/b73for6146a02fkmh696i/AO9vgSq8eLGMmZdLk78e3NE?rlkey=aklkzcqdjxjb5kloe77t86rpb&e=1&st=6ywit6c3&dl=0

@klausi6

i think VSL with good velocity curve and with overtones of Pianoteq sound better than IVORY 3.

The main sound quality and Piano regulation/tuning is more important for me that una corda.

Ivory 3 g(erman) seems to have a cut off (missing brillance and trebble). i Wait for the American Ivory 3 🙂