Another Half Pedaling thread

dore_m

I started trying to script half-pedaling a few weeks ago and its turned into a real self-discovery project. I was never able to describe how I pedal on an acoustic, and only knew that I had much more control over an acoustic than a digital with a damper on/off switch.

So I tried scripting half pedaling in Kontakt, mimicking the behavior of Noire and Garritan CFX. I thought i had something that worked, and it kind of does work, but with some quirks. But then I scripted something in SFZ recently and found out that its much better/easier to do. I thought I'd attach a rudimentary library here that can be opened in Sforzando for people to try. I know, the samples aren't great - it was just a mockup. Find the SFZ file and open in Sforzando.

Does the half pedaling behave as you'd expect it to? (more or less?)

PS. If this technique works, then it can be applied to anyone's SFZ library for half pedaling.

Deleted

dore_m I was never able to describe how I pedal on an acoustic

As a professional pianist you adjust pedaling to the instrument and the room. In a way the damper pedal is also a "reverb" control.

dore_m So I tried scripting half pedaling in Kontakt, mimicking the behavior of Noire and Garritan CFX.

Everything you can control with a pedal on acoustic piano is already baked into the samples themselves and therefore fixed forever. All you can do is sustain them.

For some libraries you will get nothing more than finger pedal (which is what we want from VSTs, because it provides a very clean and predictable sound, which works well in a mix), some will switch to "pedal samples" (which all digital pianos have dropped now for good reasons).

But there is nothing in in between. No sample library will allow to choose the perfect point between "dry" to "mush". There is no need to either, as the recording has already been done, so can't screw it up anymore.

vagfilm

Joe: I don't think you understand the point of half-pedaling… I am a beginner, with no good control of the pedal, very limited exposure to acoustics, but I know that the point of half pedalling is not to half-dampen the strings, or to have samples between dry and mush (that does not even make sense since all samples are done in the absence of ongoing resonances), but to control FROM HOW HIGH YOU DROP THE DAMPER. If you release the pedal from full press, the dampers will come down with heavy force and abruptly dampen the sound and absorb string energy (subsequent strikes will happen in a resting string), while if you release from a few millimeters above half pedal point at which the damper raises from the strings, the dampers drop gently, the dampening is softer and some of the string energy is maintained for immediate strikes. This is a note-off velocity, and if the VST has note-off samples at different velocities it can certainly be put on the VST. Or not ideally, it can be simulated by more or less abrupt dampening of the note (like in finger pedaling, if you understand finger pedaling not just as sustain but also as soft vs hard release). Ever noticed how fast releases sound louder, even if the attack is the same? If you understand that, you understand half pedal…

QuasiUnaFantasia

vagfilm This explanation was both enlightening and thought provoking for me. Thank you for that!

dore_m

You'll notice that I've asked a direct and answerable question. Let me try to clarify again. I've tried to recreate the half pedal behavior of other VI's and want to know if others can comment on if the behavior is similar.

I'm comparing to competitors first, then may try to improve to be more like an acoustic later. So discussion about what feels real can come after I get opinions on the question itself.

CyberGene

dore_m

I'm very picky about re- and half- pedaling and will certainly help and test your dev but I've been very busy as of late, so can't promise when...

dore_m

Thanks CyberGene. I know you're picky - so you're the best test!

I figure that I'm an experience amateur at doing this, and my opinion alone can only go so far. I'm comparing to competitors because I want to know if my version of half pedaling is going in the right direction or not. I'm even trying to understand if any "crappy" half pedaling is better than no half pedaling at all.

Deleted

dore_m You need to look primarily, that you get re-pedaling properly done. Means that you don't lose sustained notes which should continue to ring, when shifted from the keys into the pedal and back. Even Kawai struggles with this.

Otherwise you don't need to bother with damper release, if you don't have a bunch of release sample layers to trigger. (Does SFZ even support that?)

"Half-pedaling" in the pianistic sense (creating certain effects with partially dampening strings) isn't even necessary with a digital piano, as summed samples are never more than the exact sum of its parts.

MacMacMac

This kind of half pedal works quite well: