Yamaha P-515 club

nhanzero · 2021-10-04T10:57:09+00:00

Just got here from PW, I do feel this place is much more elegant, and because I want to tell the world about my new beauty also!

HZPiano

porco_rosso Why, do you want to sell your E-200 ATX3?

Was wondering that as well!

And in a recent 'live' video I noticed you playing a different upright, acoustically , which brought up the same question.

Cheers and happy playing,

PS Yes, I'm subscribed to your channel too, and just plain baffled by your abundant productivity.

Gamma1734

Thanks for the answers. The recent live video was at my parents home, it's an older Kawai, very cheap but it's the instrument I grew up with and know perfectly. Although it's 20 years old and cost not even 5k new at the time, I feel sooo much better on it than what I have now. As mentioned in the welcome thread, I am generally happy with the e200 but the axis problem is becoming a real problem and it's not worth the high amount of money I paid in my opinion. If it worked like the piano I have at home it would be great , but right now I'm again starting have big trouble with repeated notes, fast scales etc. The action is just a bit weird, when I play a fast scale it doesn't feel like a smooth swuuush over the keys, but rather every key is so hard and short to press, also when I play big jumps for some reason I often hit the wrong keys with that one, but with other instruments I can play crazy fast jumps super accurately. Like La Campanella, I can play super fast and accurately at the other Kawai but with the one right one it's always a little bit of a pain for some reason. But Still, it's probably the best action I ever had, but the degrading of the axis problem is a problem because it will get worse and worse every day. So yes, I'm probably going to sell it and look for a slightly worse digital solution, but it's really also a financial aspect, I'm only a student and if I get "basically" the same result with 3k more on my account I have to sort of take it.

Acutally I tried both the p515 and vpc1 in a store here. Both felt nice, but I remember being particularly interested to the p515 because when I played a jazz piece (I remember, Chugunovs Impromptu), it felt super crisp and fun to play on it. The vpc1 felt pretty nice, I didn't notice any flaws, it didn't feel like a dream come true, and it's probably a bit worse than the hybrid upright but.. yeah. Also, I'm thinking of selling it because I have only a couple months to go with my phd and if I move than I don't really want to care about an upright where I anyways don't really believe in it. Also, the sound (at least in my flat) is really not that great. It sounds so dull for some reason, so lifeless. Also there are some ugly resonances (which I could probably fix but..)

HZPiano

Gamma1734 The action is just a bit weird

Hello,

Would you say the action in Kawai's NV5(S) then is weird as well? Being essentially the same action?

Or am I mixing things up here?

Would the Kawai MP11SE be an option for you?

Cheers and happy research,

Gamma1734

Hi HZ, yes, I think any action of this kind has the problem with the axis, at least that's what the salesman told me, so I can't verify it without any shadow of a doubt, but it makes sense to me. About the mp11, I thought it's the same action as the VPC but only that there are speakers and many knobs? And much more expensive.

porco_rosso

Gamma1734 About the mp11, I thought it's the same action as the VPC but only that there are speakers and many knobs? And much more expensive.

No, the MP11SE has a different action: the Grand Feel 1 (the third in the picture). It has longer keysticks and a longer pivot. The VPC1 uses the RM3 Grand 2 (the second in the picture).

The MP11SE does have built-in samples (SK-EX, SK-5, EX) and other sounds, but does not have speakers.

Gamma1734 Hi HZ, yes, I think any action of this kind has the problem with the axis, at least that's what the salesman told me, so I can't verify it without any shadow of a doubt, but it makes sense to me.

Thats worrying…

HZPiano

porco_rosso picture

Hello,

Thanks for that image, @porco_rosso.

Good luck with finding a suitable solution, @Gamma1734 ! Please keep us posted on your findings, considerations and decisions.

Cheers and happy research,

HZPiano

Gamma1734 problem with the axis

Hello,

By the way I am not sure what you and/or the salesman refer to as 'the axis'.

It'd be interesting to know more about what problems you experience (you have already written some about it above). Is it wear and tear? You do play it rather intensely 🙂.

As connected as you seem to the instrument in your videos, it isn't easy to see where it goes wrong for you.

Cheers and happy solutions,

spanishbuddha

HZPiano By the way I am not sure what you and/or the salesman refer to as 'the axis'.

Yes, I don't understand this either, as I posted in PW. Please Gamma explain further.

Gamma1734

So the technician who replaced 37 of these axis (whatever the plural of that is in english) said to me that they take the force of the hammer instead of the string. He showed me one of these little pieces of metal. It's like a longer, thin piece of metal. It had a dent. He said that the dent reduces the playability for me that I can't do repetitions as well enough because …* (insert complicated technical reason I can't remember anymore because I'm not into that stuff in such detail.) That's all I know. Basically what happened and the reason I called them was that I could play a key pp and depress the key somehow, and leave it, without getting any sound. Press gently, go back about 80, 90%, press,…. I could do this procedure infinitely without getting any sound. Normally however you would depress the key very gently with every pressing. You would actually get a sound. But in my case 37 keys didn't give me a sound. Only keys that I play a lot, so the C8 was fine and didn't show this behaviour. Since I'm starting to get that problem again I can actually just make a video about that demonstrating this.

The reason I don't talk about that is that I don't make a big deal about it, because my channel is about the music and not about technical details etc. But it's annoying for me because I can literally feel while playing how the instrument is breaking down under my hands, and that's stuff I have to edit afterwards because I simply know I could have played it pretty much exactly as I thought I should sound.

vagfilm

A video (even a photo...) would help to understand... Is this something that comes between the string and the hammer head, when the silent pedal is activated?

Gamma1734

Hi, I didn't answer anymore to this thread. The problem is simply that the force of the hammer would normally be released in the string, but in silent mode the hammer stops right before the string, and the force then focusses on that one part of the mechanic, and puts a lot of stress on it.

I actually wanted to start a new thread about this, but I guess I am going to proceed here. Thing is, I'll move soon and therefore I'm again looking for a nice and inexpensive midi controller, but also to play on Bach Fugues or Beethoven Sonatas and stuff like that. I am in the process of selling the Kawai hybrid I had, and I quite enjoy playing on that instrument, as long as we are not talking about horribly difficult Rachmaninov etudes or things like that. Just some nice Bach, Mozart, Schubert in the evening is a fun play on it. But anyways, I am considering to try this Yamaha because I also remembered it behaving rather nicely in the store. Hope I can try it again today in a store. So, if anyone has a quick and strong opinion about an experience feel free to share, it helps.

HZPiano

Gamma1734 So, if anyone has a quick and strong opinion about an experience feel free to share, it helps.

I tried it this afternoon and for a moment I could see how people are attracted to it. (Could see how @Pete14 worships it 😁 ).

After a couple of minutes though, I switched it off and moved on.

Gamma1734

HZPiano waiting patiently on your report!

Drew-r

Gamma1734

Meantime, you might find the following hand-on report useful.

For instance, Daria seems to be both somewhat an accomplished pianist AND human despite the former. Her overall review had to be broken into 4 parts due to having computer problems that prevented her from releasing this review in a single piece.

Short story: she had a 745, prior to which she had a 515. While she liked aspects of both, she subjectively prefers the latter due to overall value by comparison. I think she covers this in part 4 “resume’” but you may need to view earlier parts to get all her details.

HZPiano

Drew-r Daria seems to be both somewhat an accomplished pianist AND human

Yes, I like her too.

Drew-r despite the former

Eh?! Now you got me worried! So, because I am an accomplished pianist*) that means I am probably not very human?

😬

*) I'm not. Far from. So phew, all is good after all 😄.

Drew-r

HZPiano

Yes, i like her too, but upon further review, that was probably excessively broad/snarky, said in haste while still caught up in thinking about brother Pete14.

Allow me to revise that previous remark; accomplished pianist AND human despite the former 😉.

Pete14

I always keep coming back to the price (bang for buck) because this is where I believe the P-515 beats all others (in its category).

Regarding HZ’s initial observation, keep in mind that sometimes a little tweaking can make a huge difference. As a matter of fact, I initially didn’t ‘like’ the CFX too much because it sounded bombastic (especially the lower end), but after a few tweaks, including some note-per-note volume edits, I was able to dial-in a very beautiful piano (sound). I’ve not made a single tweak thereafter.

Regarding Daria’s preference of the NWX over the GrandTouch-S, it reminded me of how I felt about the RM3/2 over the GF; I preferred the RM3/2 over the GF despite Kawai claiming that the latter was better (longer pivots).

I mention this because I see a parallel here: the manufacturers claim that the longer pivots in these actions (GF, GrandTouch/S) make them better than their predecessors, yet that doesn’t seem to -always- be the case, and I wonder if this is due to ‘making the keys longer but not fully addressing other aspects related to this change.’

HZPiano

Pete14 I initially didn’t ‘like’ the CFX too much because it sounded bombastic (especially the lower end), but after a few tweaks, including some note-per-note volume edits, I was able to dial-in a very beautiful piano (sound). I’ve not made a single tweak thereafter.

That sounds as being a good thing to me. The helpful and honest young guy at the store said to me "if you play virtual libraries your are spoilt", and that probably means I'm forever lost from the world of internal sound engines -- as my experiences confirmed.

Pete14 preference of the NWX over the GrandTouch-S, it reminded me of how I felt about the RM3/2 over the GF; I preferred the RM3/2 over the GF

Regarding RM3 II vs. GF, yes that was my impression of almost a week ago as well -- much to my surprise. I am curious to investigate that a bit more, and take the GFC and GF3 into account (a.k.a. under my fingers) too. Needs planning another 'excursion' or two… 🙂.

Pete14 ‘making the keys longer but not fully addressing other aspects related to this change.’

To us, that would be particularly difficult to rule on, yet this week those 'other factors' keep my mind puzzling as well.

Cheers and happy playing whatever suits one,

👍

Pete14

Yes, I went to check out the GF “knowing” it would be miles ahead (closer to a concert grand) because Kawai kept making these claims and other people seemed to vouch for it, yet upon further inspection (I played the GF), I was underwhelmed.

In a nutshell:

“light/fluffy/bouncy” to a fault (unrealistic).

Believe it or not, I still bought a CA-95 because I’d been so influenced by this “long pivot” thing that I thought it ‘all in my head’, and that it was simply a matter of adjusting; well, I never could adjust, and soon after, sold the piano and never looked back (at the GF).

At some point I wondered if Kawai deliberately made this action light & fluffy to give the illusion of it being “easier” to play, but now I wonder if this ‘change’ had something to do with attempting to lessen the “push-back” that CG talks about, or a combination of the above + ‘not addressing other aspects related to making a key longer’; regardless, I believe they failed (considering how awesome/realistic the RM3/2 action is).

IMHO!🙂

HZPiano

Pete14 attempting to lessen the “push-back” that CG talks about

Well, that push-back is a real world problem that I'd love to have solved in my little piano setup. I'm not yet convinced which -- if any -- action will help me with that, also not convinced (yet) to what extent the VPC1 with RM3 II would do that job for me.

In this context, I do not consider any AvantGrand or Novus hybrid; investments of such amounts should go (in my little world!) to proper instruments. That would mean acoustic piano 😋 and/or acoustic double bass 😋.

Cheers and happy actions,

« Previous Page Next Page »