The future belongs to the digital piano

Pete14 · 2023-11-18T12:29:31+00:00

The future-now belongs to the digital, and I ask, have I not been saying this for a while? https://youtu.be/1fXlg8LKQS8?si=_sWGF35m-usrCUtc The numbers don...

QuasiUnaFantasia

Music will still be made with acoustic instruments, long after the last watt has been produced and consumed.

Acoustic piano's are like living breathing animals. 🙂 Digital instruments are like stuffed animals on a shelf.

Pete14

QuasiUnaFantasia Acoustic piano's are like living breathing animals. 🙂 Digital instruments are like stuffed animals on a shelf.

Very poetic, really, it is, but sadly, poetry does not always translate well into reality; hence, the reason why poets die young (you know, from hunger), whilst doctors live-it-up on the top of the hill (you know, in the white mansion(s) with huge golden fence(s)).

The digital is not a stuffed teddy bear, but if you insist on being a poet, I’ll leave you with this:

https://youtu.be/RqVP1XoYpWM?si=aueuZbU3nCFBhRsO

MacMacMac

At the risk of being pushed into a new, off-topic thread …

Pete14 … just like Ford will be fully electric by 2035 …

The future of the electric car is in doubt. Despite the hubbub … people don't seem to want them. GM reported sales of 675,000 vehicles in 2022. Only 20,000 were electric. Just 3%.

Back on topic … the digital piano/electric car analogy fails badly.

An electric car tries to do the same job as a gasoline-powered one, and it does so pretty well. But it costs much, much more.

A digital piano tries to do the same job as an acoustic piano. But it does not succeed … though at least it costs a lot less.

Pete14

MacMacMac A digital piano tries to do the same job as an acoustic piano. But it does not succeed … though at least it costs a lot less….

It does not succeed, you say, yet here you are salivating over an NU1XA!

BTW, thanks for confirming my point:

MacMacMac GM reported sales of 675,000 vehicles in 2022…..

Only around 29,000 acoustics sold, and that is all-brands-combined!

Why do you people so stubbornly hold on to the past? Let it go already, the past, and make room for the future. It’s the way it’s been done since time immemorial: the new replaces the old; just like the fridge replaced the ice-box, the computer the typewriter, the light-bulb the candle, and now, the digital replaces the acoustic!

Don’t be mad, stubborn bunch, but rather happy that there’s always something new in the horizon patiently waiting to replace the old; once again, this is the way it’s been done since time immemorial!

CyberGene

You will always have to keep one acoustic piano remaining on earth, otherwise you won’t have a piano to sample for all future digital imitation instruments. And no, modeling won’t solve the problem for two simple reasons, it sounds like crap, and two, it needs samples from a real piano to generate the model.

pianow

CyberGene the "it sounds like crap" got me on the floor🤣

but i agree of course idk why so many people love it cause it's always a simple click away from being shitty - you reach the higher velocities? sounds like shit - you go down to the low notes? sounds like shit

i mean the only thing that i think is any good about modeling is cohesiveness (where sampled pianos have a great deal to improve)

SouthPark

which branched to LINK

Pete14

Of note:

I just noticed a bunch of “acoustic-lovers” (elsewhere) complaining about ‘the state of the acoustic,’ and the lack of innovation afflicting it.

These are hardcore, acoustic enthusiasts and they’re not happy, so imagine the rest of the ‘normal’ world (most average Joes).

I believe it’s the catch-22 effect at play: there’s no innovation due to lack of demand, and lack of demand for lack of innovation.

On the one hand I hate Steinway, but on the other, how can we expect them to innovate if very few people are buying their product? Imagine if there’d be very little demand for the iPhone whence it appeared on the scene circa 2007? One of two things would’ve happened: either It disappeared, and with it the “smartphone industry,” or it would’ve stuck around unnoticed; still fashioning tech from 2007!

The latter is more-or-less what happened with the acoustic: lack of interest/demand has left it stuck in the 1800s; granted, the acoustic had a decent start in terms of demand, but those were different times; whence entire families gathered around the piano for a night of fun, but today’s proverbial family prefers gathering around the couch to binge on Loki (sorry, but that’s the truth).

Would I buy an acoustic? Well, if I had lots of money, a huge house all to myself, and my neighbors lived at least one mile away from me, maybe?

If I could simply leave the door unlocked for the tuner to show up, do his thing, accept Venmo, didn’t talk to me nor made eye contact, and basically didn’t even know my real name, “Hi, I’m Joe Shmo,” then maybe, just maybe I’d buy an acoustic; however, this is a very unlikely -perfect- scenario…..

“Demand drives innovation,” they say, and perhaps there’s some truth to that, and it is no longer a matter of whether some people believe the acoustic superior; because considering the acoustic’s current state of affairs this is a moot point as it relates to the future of the acoustic, which, once again, is nonexistent; heck I’m surprised it’s still hanging around. Are these people being subsidized? I genuinely don’t understand how they can make it work (the finances), never mind health insurance for their aging employees, or do you know of any millennials eagerly training for their dream profession? “Steinway Piano Technician.”

P.S.

If a close & beloved relative asked for advice on pursuing his/her lifelong dream of owning a piano dealership, would you have the guts to look him/her/it in the eye and say, “No! don’t do it, Joe/Jane,” or would you lie to his/her face, “That’s a great idea, go for your dream”? (This is a rhetorical, but if you decide to answer, I ask that you be honest!

CyberGene

Pete14 If a close & beloved relative asked for advice on pursuing his/her lifelong dream of owning a piano dealership, would you have the guts to look him/her/it in the eye and say, “No! don’t do it, Joe/Jane,” or would you lie to his/her face, “That’s a great idea, go for your dream”? (This is a rhetorical, but if you decide to answer, I ask that you be honest!

So, would you advise her to open a digital piano dealership instead?

And a question here on my side: If digital pianos were strictly acoustic piano emulations, i.e. having only acoustic piano patches and no other stuff like strings, pads, organs, synths, rhythms, MIDI capabilities, etc., how many do you think would have been sold? There's a vast difference between what you call a digital piano and a digital keyboard/controller.

Johnstaf

Pete14 I just noticed a bunch of “acoustic-lovers” (elsewhere) complaining about ‘the state of the acoustic,’ and the lack of innovation afflicting it.

I wonder why any "acoustic-lovers" bemoan a lack of innovation, but you get all sorts online. What do they want to change?

Pete14

CyberGene So, would you advise her to open a digital piano dealership instead?

This is a valid concern, and one solution could be a smaller version of a Guitar Center; where all sorts of electronics, including digital pianos, synthesizers, workstations are sold alongside mixers, guitars, harmonicas, and quarter-inch cables.

But there’s also the online experience, and whilst it’s not possible to try-before-you-buy, simply order-try-and-return (if not satisfied).

There’s also familiarity with instruments/brands. For example, I bought the P-515 ‘sight unseen,’ but was it, really? Perhaps not, because I’m familiar with Yamaha’s folded action(s), sound, and overall design, so I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting without having to play it beforehand, and if it turned out that Yamaha dropped the ball with the P-515, I’d return it, free of charge, and get something else, and if that Roland sucked, too, I’d return it……
well, you get the point.

I don’t think “digital pianos,” not even hybrids, have ever been bare-bones, and that’s a great thing that isn’t possible with an acoustic (to be able to play/control a ‘harpsichord’ with an acoustic upright action).

It’s akin to what we today call the smartphone, would people buy it if it were simply a dumb-phone capable of only one thing? No, because it’s no longer 1975!

So, the flexibility of a ‘digital’ piano or whatever (synthesizer, workstation, controller) to be more than just the sum of its parts is but yet another sign of added functionality that comes with a thing called innovation.

I’ll give one thing to the acoustic (re: innovation): the short stick! Imagine the possibilities of having, not just a long stick, but also a short stick to hold the top lid open…..genius, just genius, but why did they fire the guy that came up with that innovative approach to holding a lid open? I’ve no idea, but they should’ve kept him on the payroll, and who knows what other marvel of technology he’d cook up……

SouthPark

Pete14 I’ll give one thing to the acoustic (re: innovation): the short stick!

From the long stick, evolved the short stick ..... in the form of the master stroke folded 'action' .... aka folded key mechanism. Short pivot length, compact and yet very controllable, and has not even finished evolving. Skeletonics and exeskel technology for the future ..... aka 'power steering'.

Will also be interesting to see evolution in the audio-energy coupling transducer mechanism, to see where they can eventually get to with that.

CyberGene

Many analogies can be made regarding pianos: photography, cars and whatnot, however they all will be wrong because with all these objects you are fulfilling an “external” need like for instance photographing something, or traveling between places. The piano doesn’t serve an external need. You will say music, but music (besides Bach whose music is absolute and can be arranged for any instrument and will sound great), is tightly interwoven with the actual instrument. You don’t hear Chopin played on a harpsichord, a Rhodes piano, a synth or a Hammond organ often, right? That’s because the piano is the need in itself, it’s not just some tool (out of many) to fulfill some external (independent) need. This is why piano can’t be “improved” or “replaced” by emulating it. It’s like saying you can improve strawberries. Or “kill” them with a genetically synthesized emulation of strawberries. Digital pianos offer numerous advantages such as size, weight, no maintenance, better price, headphones, multiple other sounds and features but if we go back to Chopin analogy, they don’t improve anything. The need: to have a proper piano as the ultimate goal itself, has long ago been perfected. If people decide they don’t like pianos anymore, they will also stop needing digital pianos (in their acoustic piano emulation aspect).

QuasiUnaFantasia

CyberGene If people decide they don’t like pianos anymore, they will also stop needing digital pianos (in their acoustic piano emulation aspect).

This is an important point; digital piano's are desired because they mimic acoustic piano's. If they didn't, they would not be attractive to buyers. Imagine two digital piano's being available to buy: one mimics a grand piano to a very high level of detail, and the other only barely resembles an acoustic instrument: which will be the attractive one for the potential buyers?

If the best a digital piano can ever aspire to is to mimic an acoustic piano in every detail, will those of necessary means ever feel a need to choose a digital piano over an acoustic one? I don't think so. My guess is that digital piano's will be the choice primarily for those who lack the space, or the money, for the real thing, and I don't think digital piano's will ever loose their status of not being "the real thing".

Pete14

We can go back and forth debating the digital’s worth, and/or whether it’ll ever one-up the acoustic it is supposedly imitating, or whether Yuja will ever tackle Chopin on an NU1XA, that is fair game, and we all have our “theories;” however, what is not debatable is the title of this thread: “The future belongs to the digital;” whether we like it or not, agree with it or not, and/or hate change or not.

And I go back to the history of things and statistics (numbers); which is not something exclusive to the acoustic, but rather built into the fabric of evolution: adapt or go extinct!

Based on the sales numbers presented thus far, the lack of innovation, and the demands placed by today’s technology-hungry society, it is obvious where the acoustic is headed (the museum), and I don’t mean to be rude, but rather realistic, and it could be that for the old & grumpy (like Quasi) the “emulation” will never catch up to the “real” thing, but for future generations, whose only point of reference will be what we now call an ‘emulation’, the digital will simply be the new-normal, the piano, the instrument (we, the old farts, will still call it a digital, but to them it will simply be the piano as they know it).

“What’s an acoustic,” asks future little Timmy, “is it anything like my piano, grandpa Quasi?”

“The acoustic was the king of all instruments back in my day, little Timmy, but they just don’t make ‘em like they used to….back in my day, we had people called manufacturers, tuners, piano techs & dealers building, maintaining, and selling us acoustics made from wood, wool, iron, and felt, but now you kids click a button, and things, including hideous digitals, manifest as if by osmosis!”

“What’s a digital, grandpa, is it anything like my beautiful piano.”😆

QuasiUnaFantasia

What I hope won't happen, but which might very well happen if things continue along the path currently in political vogue, is that the innocent child, sitting at an acoustic piano, instead asks: "What was the world like when there was electricity?"

Pete14

Come on, Quasi, the ‘electricity’ card? Really?

Yes, I get it, the acoustic necessitates no electricity; well, neither does the typewriter, the icebox, the hand-cranked washing machine, the wooden vibrator; which guess what? it didn’t even vibrate till the battery came along…

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 The reason I bring electricty up is that my job involves forecasting electricity production and consumption, and so I follow the developments in that sector rather minutely. And things are not so good as they once were ...

Pete14

Please, don’t tell me you’re turning into the prophet of doom (KFB)?

I’m not sure what data you’re being provided, but I see electricity well into our distant future; heck even wireless electricity, as first proposed by your idol, Tesla (I assume you’re a Tesla fan, and not an Edison one).

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 I was probably predicting doom before KFB was born. 😄

To be clear, I am only following the situation in Europe, so the USA may be a completely different scenario. But here in Europe the risk of power outages, as well as overload, is MUCH higher than it was 20 years ago, and we are headed towards even greater risk of the same (basically: the stable and reliable means of producing electricity are being phased out and replaced by highly irregular sources of electricity). We may well be in for situations were the EU decides who get electricity, and who don't. Already last year this topic surfaced in Germany (probably the epicenter of electrical doom for Europe).

Pete14

Okay, I propose a hand-cranked digital for the occasional power outage!

Ten minutes of yanking will provide you with 1 hour of power for your digital; which is a win-win, for you get your exercise and piano practice all in one.

Note: the above recommendation is only intended for Quasi’s apocalyptic Europe; we should be fine ‘round here!😆

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 Actually, such exercise might even lead to muscles large enough to allow playing on a Yamaha digital. 😁

SouthPark

Pete14 Okay, I propose a hand-cranked digital for the occasional power outage!

That's going to be 'old school'! The pedal-bike dynamo system (with special foot pedal for sustain) is coming out in 2024!!!!!