What to look for in a laptop?

David Lai

Hi friends.

In the post about Ivory III, some of you mentioned upgrading my computer. Of course, this is still a few years away from me, but I'd like to know. I've never really considered thinking specifically about laptops for music / VST live playing. So, a few questions are in order:

1. What are your current thoughts about PC laptops? If I just bought something with a more complicated CPU plus bigger RAM, would it suffice my needs?

2. What are the specs I need to pay attention to when selecting a PC laptop? As VoiceOver on Mac is getting so-so performance and not as stable as Windows with RME drivers, PCs are more of my choice, so Macs are out of the question in this conversation.

Thank you for any thoughts!

David

Jane

David Lai
I'm a computer programmer, David.
For the past 20 years I have bought gaming laptops because they have the best combination of fast everything - CPU, memory, disk, graphics.
The graphics is a bit of a waste for me, but everything else is very nice.
I've typically configured models from https://www.sagernotebook.com/home.php
YMMV.

Thanks for the review of Ivory III. I listened to your file. Apart from the noise, I like the sounds... and the noodling (from appassionata to Grieg to Debussy to... ) 😀

MacMacMac

Get a business laptop, not a home laptop. The latter are cheap … because they’re cheaply/poorly made. They don’t last. The business laptops are built much better.
Choose a fast processor. For any given laptop, lookup the CPU rating. (Search online for Spec Mark or Pass Mark.) Ignore any label that gushes over its “i7 CPU” … because the i7 line includes hundreds of CPUs whose speeds span an enormous range … from the latest killer-fast to the snail’s pace hunk ‘o junk. So lookup the full CPU model number.
Consider your needs. If you spend a lot of time unplugged then you’ll want long battery life. If you carry the laptop a lot then consider the weight.

David Lai

MacMacMac Thanks for this comprehensive list, Macmacmac. This really makes sense, especially for my situation. I'll remember it. So just processor on a business laptop, and since I'll want to always use it plugged in, I don't mind battery life. 🙂 I frankly am just using my laptop like a desktop.

MacMacMac

David Lai I frankly am just using my laptop like a desktop.

So why not get a desktop computer? You get more for your money. Much more.
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Jane For the past 20 years I have bought gaming laptops because they have the best combination of fast everything - CPU, memory, disk, graphics. The graphics is a bit of a waste for me, but everything else is very nice.

Quite so, Jane. They're costly ... but they're quite beastly in performance.

David Lai

Jane Thank you, Jane! I was hoping to hear from you, as you are a programer, so have far more needs than me. I'll check your linked source. I guess as a computer user, my best bet is to go for a trusted brand. And yes, the visual is a total waste for me, too. 🙂

Thanks! Yeah, I thought I'd let you know how my CPU handled the onslaught of notes and sounds. 🙂

David Lai

MacMacMac So why not get a desktop computer? You get more for your money. Much more.

I’m not yet settled in one place for an extended amount of time. Though I’m now studying in the US, there will be a point where I have to move to another state, or maybe another country. A desktop computer, with a separate screen and computer case is not ideal for relocation.

Del Vento

David Lai I’m not yet settled in one place for an extended amount of time. Though I’m now studying in the US, there will be a point where I have to move to another state, or maybe another country. A desktop computer, with a separate screen and computer case is not ideal for relocation.

First of all, excuse my bluntness, but what do you do with a screen? I thought you were blind.

Second, if you are relocating to another state, assuming that you have lots of other stuff (e.g. your keyboard!) moving a desktop vs moving a laptop is not too big of a deal. If you are really concerned about that, you could select a mid (or maybe even a small, but I'd be wary about that) tower, rather than a big one. If you are moving overseas it's not a big deal to leave behind keyboard, mouse, cables and so on. So it's just a box. I agree it can be a bit large of a box, which might not fit in your carryon luggage, unlike a laptop. But if you are moving overseas, what would you really want to move with you? Do you care about the hardware itself, or wouldn't you rather care for the data that it contains? In such a case, consider a NAS instead, but I digress...

pipAT

Simple: Performance and Convenience

Now I seldom use laptop, because I don't need to move around very often. I am more concerned with performance. A laptop is like the lite version of the same price desktop. Meh. I need the power.

David Lai

Del Vento but what do you do with a screen? I thought you were blind.

You are right that I'm blind. A screen is for a sighted person. Say if my computer is not booting up, I could ask for sighted assistance, and then I need a screen. I can also call services like Be My Eyes if I run into system problems and they can also be of help, provided that I show them the screen with my phone camera.

Second, if I relocate, a laptop is more streamlined than a desktop.

Well, considering that I probably won't be looking at a new computer soon, as this one is only 2 years old and I want to use it till it's dead, I'm just getting some material and sources so that once I need them, I can find them.

Hope this helps!

InstrEd

By the time you will need a new computer David new chips from AMD and Intel will be out. The Gaming laptops out now you will be able to get similar performance out of a light and thin laptop.

So don't worry about it now and ask away closer to when you might need a new laptop.

Peace

David Lai

InstrEd Good point! With the passing of time comes new technology. That's why I'm not yet in a hurry for a new laptop now.

But with a glance at the markets now, I've concluded the following:

One is that I need to look at CPU performance, and ram is somewhat related. Another most important thing is the comfort of the keyboard. Ones with built-in number pads on the right are better for me. Third, good distribution of USB ports. Lastly, they need to be quiet.

Now I know what to look for. Thank you!

CeDur

I second MacMacMac opinion on business series. I've been buying HP Elitebooks and Dell Thinkpads for myself and my family for the last 10 years and they never failed (except basic maintenance which I'm doing myself).

One thing I would suggest to focus on is single-core performance: 8-10 core CPU with let's say 2,5GHz will be slower than 6 core 3,2GHz when it comes to playing VIs. Of course, if you produce music and need many trakcs in your project is a different story.

David Lai

CeDur Ah, so not only do I need something with perhaps more cores, but also the single core performance of the CPU needs to be faster. Thanks for that note!

CeDur

Unfortunately, there are so many variables: what DAW you are using, does it support multi-core in a proper way, does the plugin you're using support it as well?

For example VSL pianos are not utilizing multi-core CPU properly, so if I want to reach really high polyphony, I have to load multiple instances of the plugin, one for each mic position, on separate tracks. I've done my tests and even 8 years old i7 with higher single core frequency speed beats my newer multicore i7 in scenario with single instance of plugin loaded.

Also, if you go for Intel, avoid CPUs with "U" in the name - they are lower voltage, good for longer battery life and power consumption, but limited clock speed really affects performance in DAW.

n-player

A good desktop will have (much) better CPU, cooling, and power supply.
Your laptop is quite new. Give the Ivory software a few months to release fixes and try again.

Intel's and AMD's naming conventions are not clear. For example, don't confuse those i7 chips on laptops and desktops; the laptop chips are generally (much) lower quality.

Also, some generations of chips are rubbish upgrades. Like the new Intel 14th gen (albeit if the price is low enough, then that becomes a factor).

Plus the power delivery & cooling of a laptop is vastly inferior to those of a desktop; these design limitations impact performance.

kawafanboi

most the performance in these apps come down to optimization FOR the cpu itself. unless they specify that this is implemented, the only thing you can do is watch out for highest ipc or user-benchmarks (which can be inaccurate) .

7800x3d or 14900k are still the king right now for most single threaded windows-origin applications. mac specific apps might run better on their m-processors, but this is still somewhat "rarely" the case and most of the time only certain functions within the app has cpu-optimization, while the rest of it is still constrained by calling old libraries that hits a translation layer.

mac's advantage is still their audio core which works more reliably for live, but unless live is that important to your use case, latency might not be the deciding factor. NET total latency also has more constraints inherited from the application, so even if the mac's audio path is well optimized, if the software has an unoptimized bottleneck, it'll still be up in the air.

scherbakov.al

And now on Aliexpress you can find multi-core super-efficient server processors at extremely low prices. True used ones. (but what could possibly break there??). You can buy a 14-core, 28-thread Xeon for $20, which cost $2,500 when it entered the market. Thus, over the past months I have assembled a super cheap and very productive computer for high-load tasks.

MacMacMac

scherbakov.al And now on Aliexpress you can find multi-core super-efficient server processors at extremely low prices.

Long-time Clackers know that the OP is blind. So assembling a PC from parts is probably not under consideration.

Also ... I like buying certain things from Ali Express (and Temu, too) ... mostly household products.

But when it comes to tech parts ... it's generally risky and inadvisable to buy from the no-name Asian peddlers found on those sites. They often supply substandard parts ... even counterfeit ones. Beware!

kawafanboi

scherbakov.al

these are not fast for most consumer applications though. they clock low, and xeons aren't power efficient to run relative to the new 5nm AMDs if you actually have threaded loads that can saturate the cores for weeks.