Thoughts with Ivory III German D

David Lai

Hi friends,

Thanks to a good friend on the forum and their generosity, I was able to play with Synthogy's new German D on the Ivory III engine. I now have some initial thoughts that has made me a bit uncomfortable. Before I go there, let me show you my system specs.

Device name Dell Precision 3560

Processor 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1185G7 @ 3.00GHz 1.80 GHz

Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.7 GB usable)

System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

I use Windows 11, with RME's Babyface Pro FS, driver 1.246, hardware revision 206. Buffer size 64 samples.

Now, to my over all thoughts.

Part 1: the Good.

The sound. I read in the documentation that this German D was recorded by the same team who did the American Concert D for Ivory II. Interestingly, this Hamburg instrument has a much rounder tone than other Hamburg D's, something I like very much. My favorite microphone positions are the side B and ambient mics.

Accessibility. All values can be browsed and adjusted. Just load the VST 3 plugin into Reaper, then use the up and down arrows to locate the inserted track, then press the letter P to open a dialogue where parameters can be cycled and adjusted using the up and down arrows and Tab key.

Backwards compatibility. My American Concert D under Ivory 2.5 can also work on Ivory III, all be it some features won't be available.

Release and resonance improvements. Finally there's a difference between higher pitched releases and lower pitched releases. The low notes have a fat release on an actual acoustic piano. Though Ivory has come too late on the bandwagon, it's good they have it.

Part 2: the Bad.

Price. This is not a cheap piano. Like I mentioned above, this post won't be possible without this friend's generosity. I do have to say, I was quite surprised and honoured when I read their message yesterday.

Release samples. The release samples don't contain the hall sound. I need to have the ambient control turned on in order to make it sound natural in live playback

Part 3: The Ugly.

CPU crackling. For me, I turn on half pedaling, release samples, all kinds of resonances, soundboard simulation, and that new smooth velocity control. If I turn any of these things off, it would minimize the realism. But even when I have 60 voices when turned on, I can't use the plugin without hearing significant crackling.

Question, do you think I need a more powerful laptop with a big CPU? I thought my equipment was already modern enough, fast enough and futureproof enough. But it looks like honesty has brought my presence from heaven back to earth. If you're wanting to upgrade to Ivory III, unless you have some power in your computer, you may have to refrain for now.

I wonder if I need to get my money back?

dore_m

I doubt it's a CPU problem - it might be a problem with their engine, or it might be a driver issue with your system. Did you try simply putting headphones into your PC's output, bypassing the Babyface interface altogether and see if the crackling is still there? I know the playability and such would suffer, but if the crackling disappears, it might be the audio driver to your interface, or the audio driver settings.

David Lai

OK, I'm attaching a file with a 128 KBPS MP3 and the accompanying midi. The file was played with 128 buffer size. I've discovered the loud buzz has something to do with how the Ivory III engine handles gain. I don't know what setting can this be turned off, but I remember used to hearing a similar sound on Ivory II. And then when some setting was turned off, that buzz was gone. Now if only the buzz can be sorted out, that would be great!

Enjoy as I noodle around.

David

David Lai

This loud buzz only happens when a few things are happening:

1. Several loud chords are played back to back;

2. Several loud chords of the same register are played back to back, with the sound building up.

This buzz is present on both the German D and the American Concert D under Ivory III.

dore_m

yes, that loud crackle is really annoying - even more annoying than a periodic audio dropout. Perhaps someone else with the library on Windows could use your midi file to re-create the problem.....

David B

If you're thinking of upgrading your computer I would go with a Mac. VST's just seem to run better on Macs compared to PCs.

God Bless,
David

HZPiano

Hello,

@David Lai , you've invested so much already in your setup, and are happy as can be as I understand.

I wouldn't think this one VSTi is worth even more investment, let alone all the hassle and frustration that comes with making those changes.

Maybe, just guessing here, this Windows release is too fresh out of the oven still, and contains inefficiencies and/or bugs that need to be addressed first before a heavy professional use like yours is feasible.

Thumbs up for the Generous Friend on the Forum, whoever they are, for providing you with this chance to try version III out.

Cheers and best,

CyberGene

@David Lai , have you considered a Mac? I’m not sure how the accessibility is on a macOS and it would be a huge change for you but I think a Mac with an Apple Silicon CPU is rock solid and will be much better than almost anything PC-based, especially for audio and plugins.

Pete14

Interesting, how you two were all happy & celebratin’ ‘bout the Windows version, yet here you are, recommending Mac!😁

Seriously, a new(er) Mac Mini can handle this here beast, so yes, I have to join “the two” (CG & David) in recommending Mac, Mac, Mac (the machine, not our resident troll)!

STAC101

Hello David,

Thank you for sharing your impressions, much appreciated.

On their website, Synthogy lists an 8 core processor in their system requirements. If they actually mean cores and not threads, then I guess this could explain the crackling you're experiencing since your CPU is 4 cores / 8 threads.

The first thing I would check is whether you're running the latest version of Ivory (currently 3.0.2.12). If not, you can download it here .

If that doesn't help, I would try to confirm whether the crackling is indeed caused by high CPU usage (and from what I have read, I wouldn't be shocked if it was, unfortunately).

I would test it using the Ivory standalone player (not your DAW). Apparently the Ivory player allows you to monitor performance.

I don't have it so I can't try it myself, but I have read that if you go to the "Preferences" section, you should have a "Show Engine Performance" option, and a CPU meter there.

If you can confirm that the crackling is caused by high CPU usage, then a few things you could try :

- increasing the buffer size

- keeping all the options you need, but using only one mic

- starting with the bare minimum, (single mic and turning off whatever options can be turned off), and turning them back on one at a time until high CPU usage is triggered

People have been reporting similar issues (even people whose config met the minimum requirements), so if you can't make it work, I would contact Synthogy.

David Lai

Hi everyone!

Hope you're having a nice morning, noon, or evening.

Some replies to above comments:

1. Macs / upgrading computers. Out of the question for now, as I know this laptop still has some years left, and I'm not ready to invest in a new machine till most software that I run is causing loud fan noises, or the hard drive gives up, or one of the USB ports stops working. As for PC or Mac, I'm not really sure if Macs are the right ones for me. Whenever I browse the Applevis forum, I often come across people talking about VoiceOver bugs on the Mac, some of them long-standing ones. Most people who find Macs problematic, would recommend Windows PC for more productive work instead. I began my computer journey with a PC, and have been using Windows for 16 years and counting. So all this may mean that a PC works better in my context than Macs. Also, due to my mobile life, laptops work better than desktop computers. I'd like to read about new CPU developments, but I won't be on the market soon.

2. On a related note, I agree with HZ. If Ivory III really doesn't work, I can always switch back to Ivory II for my piano use with Reaper, plus Garritan CFX, or one of the VI Labs pianos. Though I've never gotten UVI Workstation to work with Reaper, maybe it would be something to experiment with. But I'm not going to spend more money on Ivory III if I'm not able to resolve the crackle issue.

So much for this. Thanks for your replies!

For those of you who do own Ivory III, feel free to use my midi and play for yourself, see if the crackle exists on your side as well.

HZPiano

Good call, @David Lai !

Have a good Friday and weekend (almost evening here with tons of rain 😉 ).

Cheers,

David Lai

Synthogy Support is asking me to turn down the design trim (labeled "program trim") on the Reaper parameter menu, from what I know. This was without success, the buzzing continued. They then asked me to send them my preset, which I didn't because I can't find where to save my preset. I did send them the RPP file, which I doubt there'd be any use.

David Lai

Based on ease of use, laptop limitations and over all experience, I've for now removed my installation of the Ivory III engine and German D. Going back to Ivory 2.5. It's been fun, but the buzzing is not for me. I guess I'll see it again in a few years. 🙂