each VSL piano, Pros n Cons ((?))

pianow

hi there guys i wanna hear your thoughts about each vsl piano (of course the one's that you have some experience with)

so let us begin

jdg78

MacMacMac That perfectly describes the Fazioli. The Faz is as "clean" as it gets ... and is just awful. No color. No character.

Not to pile on, but agree 100% re: Fazioli. Clinical, sterile and lifeless seems to be the company's guiding sound philosophy and they've certainly managed to achieve it.

pianow hi there guys i wanna hear your thoughts about each vsl piano (of course the one's that you have some experience with)

Re: the VSL pianos, I've already given my opinions in another thread, but my overall observations are quite close to those of CraigNZ. Overall I would rank the CFX as best all around, followed by the Bosendorder Imperial. The 280VC is similarly superb with an extremely clear and forward presentation and great playability. The Steinway is also a very strong contender but has a few quirks that make it a bit more difficult to get the best results from. The Bluthner is an absolutely lovely character instrument, superbly recorded. The Fazioli is the least appealing to me.

I'm also currently demoing the older Vienna Imperial again - I had purchased it last year, but it kept crashing and freezing up on my system so I ended up returning it. But they've evidently made a few updates since then, and whatever was causing the problem seems to have been fixed.

Anyway, now that I've had a chance to properly evaluate it, I think it's really quite good, although I think I still prefer the newer Synchron Imperial. The lower half of the Vienna Imperial is absolutely gorgeous - very warm, clear and full. However I find the tone in the treble to have an oddly twangy, wobbly quality, and some of the tuning sounds slightly off. They playability is superb, however, and it's great that it has a real una corda set. I don't know if it's strictly necessary, but I might pick it up next time it goes on sale as it has several positive and unique qualities.

David B

Steinway = good dynamics but challenging velocity mapping. Sparkling highs but muddy bass. Timbre is on the cool side with a metallic shimmer.

280VC = good dynamics, naturally dry sound, a bit too sparkly in the upper range (reminds of me of Pianoteq). Nice clarity in the bass. My least favorite of the Bosendorfer offerings.

Bosendorfer Imperial = Warm timbre, dynamics not as good in the PP range, nice even tone throughout the registers. My second favorite piano to play.

Vienna Imperial = Una corda samples and sus 2 feature (adds realism), dated user interface, few mic options, very authentic acoustic feel and play-ability. My third favorite piano to play.

Yamaha CFX = It's been too long since I've owned it. don't remember it's characteristics.

Fazioli F308 = Best VSL piano recorded to date. Warm timbre, even and pristine sampling, insanely clear bass, evenness in tone throughout the entire spectrum, great dynamics and play-ability. Number one all time favorite VSL piano to play. If could own one of these concert grands this would be it.

God bless,
David

pianow

David B i always love it when you reply david

the second i see ""David B replied"" i know i'm about to get a loooot of valuable information so thanks

i personally think that the fazioli is so warm and round (the roundness they've captured with this piano is far more realistic then others - the BI for expl : i actually saw and listened to the real thing and it's a lot more darker and warmer in comparison to the VSL's version, but fazioli is more natural, even the room is never overwhelming it - they've learned a lot capturing 3 previews pianos i can tell

but i was always an steinway guy

i wish they'd sample an american steinway in stage b called (Synchron Steinway NY-274)

jdg78

pianow i wish they'd sample an american steinway in stage b called (Synchron Steinway NY-274)

Me too - that would be amazing.

CraigNZ

OK, I'll play, though my views contrast with David's. I have all of the Synchron pianos but no experience with the old Vienna Imperial.

Bosendorfer 130 upright: Beautiful, balanced, warm. Playability and touch are about as good as it gets. Especially well suited for jazz. Not the widest dynamic range, but nice timbre variation across velocities. One of the few VSL pianos where I'm perfectly happy with just a single close mic.

German 1904 upright: More character than the Bosendorfer upright, and it sounds 'thicker'. I think it works well for both soft material and slightly more percussive music. Less versatile, but really lovely - and there's not anything else quite like it from other developers.

Bluthner: A cozy sounding instrument. Sounds its age, for better or worse. Nothing thunderous or majestic about it, but very warm and intimate.

Bosendorfer Imperial: Really well balanced with a nice balance of crispness and warmth. Very well programmed. One I don't play a huge amount but would very much miss if I didn't have it. Not as overpowering as I'd expect for such a large instrument.

Steinway: Beautiful, but a bit clinical for my taste. Requires a lot more velocity tailoring than most of the other pianos, and is a library I didn't really enjoy until adding the mics in the full version.

Bosendorfer 280VC: My second favourite of the big grands. Crystal clear but with with plenty of body. 'Precise' sounding bass notes with a crisp attack I like a lot. Hugely flexible if you dial the timbre back a notch or two, which can transform the tone into something pleasantly woolly. Beautiful for jazz and an instrument I feel really 'connected' to when I play.

Fazioli: The only VSL piano I've tried to return. If it was my first foray into their pianos I'm sure I'd be impressed, but compared to their other pianos I find the sound bland and nondescript. Perfectly pleasant, but without the vibrancy or liveliness of the Bosendorfers, Steinway, or Yamaha. It's also absolutely massive in terms of GB, the fourth pedal is as good as worthless, and unlike some of the other pianos, when I really hammer at it, the loudest velocities are underwhelming.

Yamaha CFX: My absolute favourite. Playability is superb, timbre range is spectacular, combines crystalline highs with rich lows, and has plenty of 'bite' without ever being harsh. It's what I imagine my perfect concert grand would sound like. And that's without upgrading to the full version!

MacMacMac

CraigNZ Fazioli: I find the sound bland and nondescript.

That perfectly describes the Fazioli. The Faz is as "clean" as it gets ... and is just awful. No color. No character.

pianow

CraigNZ wow thanks buddy it was a so valuable

i was always an steinway guy but in vsl pianos i really love what they've done with the yamaha

and i DON'T FU88ING KNOW why would they change the recording techniques with others

to me it sounds like with the steinway and bosendorfer, they set their close mics a little bit higher than where it was on the yamaha

and the result is they sound noticable thinner and far away from you (the player)

but F it we got the beautiful CFX… (but i really hope they'd sample an american steinway in the stage b - this is probably the 100th time i'm saying this in a single day 🙂 imagine it SYNCHRON STEINWAY NY-274)

pianow

CraigNZ hello it's me again 🙂

i would've love to know if the 280vc can reach the lowest and highest velocities like yamaha

i've heard it's a very weak piano in this regard (if you can send a audio demo of the velocities from ppp to fff i will be so greatfull buddy)

but man the second mid mic on this sounds lovely (it's warm but not muddy - bright but not harsh - just perfect - based on vsl demos) it's your second favorite for a reason

johanibraaten

CraigNZ One of the few VSL pianos where I'm perfectly happy with just a single close mic.

I just upgraded to the full version of the CFX and man, that close ribbon mic was worth it! I have played with only that mic for a little over a week now and for me it makes a really good playing experience. I like to have a close and fairly dry sound when practicing but the close mic one can be a bit harsh and IMO kind of need another mic to make things rounder. It also has some really annoying panning issues that's quite pronounced when playing with headphones. The Close mic 2 (ribbon) doesn't have these issues at all and it sounds beautiful. If it wasn't for the tuning issues I think the VSL CFX would be the perfect virtual piano for me. I can live with the lack of real una corda samples and the limited sympathetic resonance but the tuning kind of annoys me.

MHirsch

MacMacMac No color. No character.

… steril.

johanibraaten

That Fazioli seems to be a divider. Some really loves it and some really don’t like it. It seems like the sample library universes equivalent to Pianoteq😊

pianow

jdg78 thanks buddy

i'm thinking about the cfx cause it seems to be everyone's favorite

and after watching thousands of videos, i feel like it's the most warm and rounded in the lineup (vsl own demos are pure garbage - never shows the true character and the quality)

the steinway comes second for me

but i don't really like hamburg steinways in comparison to NY steinway d

i hope they'd sample an steinway d new york in stage b

just imagine it (SYNCHRON STEINWAY NY-274)

it'll be perfect

pianow

jdg78 ykw? let's email vsl about it together

they wouldn't ignore such thing

David B

pianow i'm thinking about the cfx cause it seems to be everyone's favorite

and after watching thousands of videos, i feel like it's the most warm and rounded in the lineup

I think the Fazioli is warmer, has clearer bass, and is a more transparent/accurate representation of the piano that is sampled (i.e., the Fazioli sounds more like the Fazioli than the CFX sounds like the CFX). If you're looking for warmth, evenness, and clarity with one of the best dynamic ranges in the Synchron lineup, you might want to consider the F308. I know it's difficult but try not to be influenced by all the negative comments. Hear/play it for yourself. You might find there is validity to the negative statements. Or, like me, you might find that it is absolutely the best sampled piano in the VSL lineup. 😎

God Bless,
David

jdg78

pianow (vsl own demos are pure garbage - never shows the true character and the quality)

Agree - the sound demos on the VSL website are abysmal. Half of them sound like they were recorded in an airplane hanger or a concrete stadium. I can't figure out why they chose those particular examples, but they really aren't doing themselves any favors.

pianow you're right… i should try them for myself

Yes, it's really worth it to try every model yourself before making a decision. You can tell more after 5 minutes of playing on your own rig then reading all the messages on the internet.

pianow

David B thanks david

i agree with you

sometimes i need an slap to remind myself that (don't make decision based-on others opinion)

you're right… i should try them for myself

but the cfx is so pricy already and now there's 100$ more for the fazioli… god hope i won't love it😂

pianow

jdg78 i think the main concept (at least for the VSL folks themselves) is the room impression - it seems they're so proud of the synchron stage a and the most important thing for them to show us is how the pianos would sound with different room mics - but they should stop this cause a lot of us want to know how the pianos would sound in different recordings (super roomy - so tight & intimate - breathing with a little bit of the room - upfront with just close and mids

-- and about styles… we need to see if the particular piano can suit our genre

some pop - classical - jazz or even rocks

i can definitely write book about how the demos should be but let me cut the b99lshit here❤️😅

thanks for the valuable reply friend❤️❤️❤️❤️

CraigNZ

pianow

bosendorfer-280vc-velocity-demo-ppp-fff.mp3

Hope this helps; a little bit of Falling Grace/I wish I knew how it would feel to be free/random repetitive stuff to try to show velocity range.

CraigNZ

Happy to, but prob won't be until tomorrow as it's already late down here in NZ!

pianow

johanibraaten i saw/heard the second close mic in a video

it's warmer but also have a greater stereo image and based on its placement - overall a more natural tone i love it (totally worth it in my opinion)

close mic 1 is better for pop and rock music, when you want that bell like attack it can really benefit your mix

and yea… i don't know why everyone so angry about the lack of una corda

the only reason that soft pedal exist is players wanted to have a calmer tone while playing fast that can't be achieve on a acoustic piano with anything else but in digital world you can tweak the velocity curve or decreas the midi sensitivity and it's far more intuitive - although they also given us an emulation of the una corda so what's the problem?