This just in……

Pete14

Local Kawai dealer says: ‘Kawais break-down more often….’

Of course, this was met with skepticism “elsewhere,” but it’s the frickin’ truth (sorry, I went a little Pete…again).

Someone asked: ‘…then why does he still sell them Kawais…?’ And I believe it might be due to contractual obligations, or simply because some people still believe Kawai is a solid-built piano; however, he felt bad for this one person and decided to speak the truth for once……you know, even lawyers tell the truth every once in a while!

Note: if you get a functioning Kawai out of the box, or one that goes for a year without any issues, consider yourself lucky.

I hope this thread doesn’t “devastate” the forum; god knows what CG would do to me if I single-handedly destroyed this here place. (Wait a minute…did I just go Pete again? God damnit! I just can’t get off that Pete wagon)!

ClothEaredNincompoop

Well, I've have 1 Kawai digital pianos so far and they all have had an issue i.e. one slightly louder key.

That's 100%. 😉

I've also had 1 Yamaha digital piano so far and it had some issues, but it was from the 80's.

I've also had 1 Casio digital piano so far and it had noisy keys.

Next Roland? 🤔

Pete14

ClothEaredNincompoop Well, I've have 1 Kawai digital pianos so far and they all have had an issue i.e. one slightly louder key.

Go ahead, I dare you, buy a second Kawai….and then a third….and then let us know how that goes!😁

QuasiUnaFantasia

In my decades long experience as a consistent non-owner of Kawai equipment, I have never had one single Kawai instrument that worked at all, not ever. Contrast this with owning one Yamaha, and two Roland's that have never failed. If this isn't impressive statistics, then it must be something else. Entirely.

ClothEaredNincompoop

Maybe if I find an official T-shirt first. I don't think this one is:

CyberGene

I’ve had three Kawai digital pianos and in all fairness they were without manufacturing defects, which I consider an exception, since so many people are not so lucky. My issue with Kawai is their sampling, EQ-ing and touch response. It’s a conscious decision they made but it’s wrong, at least in these three instruments I owned. I wasn’t a VST guy but Kawai made me switch to virtual pianos because of their subpar (IMO) piano sound. The Yamaha N1X is so much better! I resort to Garritan CFX only for recordings. However, for everyday practice the Yamaha onboard piano sound is good enough and light years ahead of Kawai, in terms of key to sound connection. With the Yamaha I feel I’m playing a real acoustic piano with only the sound slightly lagging behind the pristine quality and beauty of a big sampled library. But the playability is much better than most sampled libraries. With the Kawai onboard sounds though, it doesn’t feel like playing an acoustic piano. It feels like an electronic keyboard, not bad but just not piano-like. Please note, I’m not speaking about the action itself, which is quite good. But once mated to the awkward piano sound response, it becomes a disaster. IMO 🙂

Khuja Wangtishvili

CyberGene With the Kawai onboard sounds though, it doesn’t feel like playing an acoustic piano. It feels like an electronic keyboard, not bad but just not piano-like. Please note, I’m not speaking about the action itself, which is quite good. But once mated to the awkward piano sound response, it becomes a disaster. IMO 🙂

I actually feel the opposite. I have NEVER EVER played a Yamaha digital that sounded and felt good, and I played everything since 400 series. The only good one was N1X. Especially they have muted treble, which sound like from behind the blankiet, and there is no possibility to get it right.
Kawai did it properly out of the box.

@CyberGene maybe just Kawai sound is not for you?

QuasiUnaFantasia

Shouldn't the t-shirt look like this:

Okay, now I'm only being mean. To make amends: I very much like the sound of Shigeru's (the acoustic variety, that is).

Pete14

QuasiUnaFantasia

Actually, you got it right, and if anything, it’s Kawai that needs to make amends for all the unneeded stress they’ve caused to their customers, who, upon unpacking their brand-new Kawai(s) (giddy with excitement) are left stranded to fend for themselves….

As for CG’s “lucky-streak,” I can say with certainty you could indeed hit the lottery next time you play; ‘cause you’re one lucky guy: not one, but three working Kawais…..surely, the gods are on your side, but for the rest….not so much.

Pete14

Indecent Proposal: get James to come here, and I’ll get you “the” official Kawai T-shirt; how’s that?

David B

Pete14 Actually, you got it right, and if anything, it’s Kawai that needs to make amends for all the unneeded stress they’ve caused to their customers, who, upon unpacking their brand-new Kawai(s) (giddy with excitement) are left stranded to fend for themselves….

Actually, Kawai USA probably has the best costumer service in the industry. Way better than Yamaha. I've owned several Kawai slabs and I was always able to talk directly to the most knowledgeable people in customer service. They've gone out of their way to provide resources (technical manuals) and parts for me (along with instructions on how to repair) when I damaged my Kawai ES8. They helped me when I had some struggles with my MP11SE. Those were the OCD nitpicking type struggles that I'm sure customer service reps roll their eyes and shake their heads when they receive these calls. Kawai customer service really is awesome!

Yamaha not so much. I inquired a few times with my N1X and couldn't even get someone on the phone that was knowledgeable. I was instructed to take it back to the dealer which was not practical. 🤦‍♂️

God Bless,
David

CyberGene

Khuja Wangtishvili Especially they have muted treble, which sound like from behind the blankiet, and there is no possibility to get it right.
Kawai did it properly out of the box.

@CyberGene maybe just Kawai sound is not for you?

The harsh and piercing highs on the Kawai digital pianos is exactly one of the aspects I don’t like about their processing. What you call muted treble on the Yamahas is what I like in comparison to the Kawai brightness. It can be a matter of taste too. I’m not alone though and it’s not rare to hear people complaining about piercing highs on the Kawai pianos. Again, could be a matter of taste, which is why I used “IMO” a few times.

The other aspect I don’t like about Kawai pianos is the bass. It sounds overpowering but at the same time dull and lacking overtones. It reminds me a bass guitar and not a piano. On a Yamaha digital the bass is always rich in spectrum and timbre. And I’m not sure the real Kawai acoustic pianos sound as dull as the samples in their digital pianos. I could only guess they apply noise reduction to the samples to avoid noise accumulation (like Garritan CFX) but it removes important overtones from the sound and dulls it out.

Pete14

David B

Hmm, it seems like you’re quite familiar with Kawai’s “customer-service,” and I wonder, could it be because you were on the phone with them on a daily basis? 😁

“No, Kawai, I called about the wobbly key, guitar-like bass, and one stuck C yesterday; today I’m calling about an incessant hiss, a vibration, a lateral-moving key, two buttons that won’t give, and a’ bench!”

Surely, they’re nice, now that they’ve been on the phone with you on a daily basis, you’re like family; however, since you rarely ever needed to call Yamaha about any issues, they were a bit shy about calling you back at the wrong time, and waking you up; so you see, they were not being rude for/by not calling back, but rather shy & apprehensive.

I love Yamaha “customer-service” because rarely do I need it; now, that’s the mark of a well-built product!

HZPiano

CyberGene piercing highs on the Kawai pianos

CyberGene The other aspect I don’t like about Kawai pianos is the bass. It sounds overpowering but at the same time dull and lacking overtones

Unfortunately, this is what strikes/disappoints me every time I try a Kawai digital piano at a store.

It is (somewhat) better through headphones than through speakers, and the more expensive Kawai model I try, the (somewhat) better the tone production is.

In the middle regions, I like the Kawai onboard sounds the best between brands, but low and high fall short as described by @CyberGene .

All of this said, I have yet to come across a built-in piano sound that I could actually enjoy for more than a few minutes of noodling.

Without the VSTi route my brother pointed out to me, and in particular without Modern U, digital piano as a viable instrument would quickly have failed for me altogether.

Cheers and happy sounds-to-taste,

CyberGene

P.S. The above is even more pronounced through the Kawai speaker system. I’m not sure who is tuning their sound but they most definitely prefer a V-shaped signature with even brighter highs and deeper bass. I guess it may sound impressive in a store at first and I’ve even had this comment from bystanders in stores hearing the Kawai: wow, what a powerful bass! Well, yes. And no. This is not a Hi-fi system for hip-hop. Some people may like an artificially boosted bass, not me. Again, I’ve read other people complaining about that too throughout the years, so I am not alone. Not saying everybody dislikes it though. It’s good we have choice.

Khuja Wangtishvili

@CyberGene
The issue with Kawai bass is not overpowering, because Yamaha is actually overpowered, but most people have no idea what they are tlaking about in terms of sound. Kawai in terms of volume has proper amount of bass, BUT it is muddy / mushy. Yamaha is clear here. But Kawai went on the proper road, and already each generation starting from CA98/78 had this corrected, current ones are clear. so it's not about the amount, but it's about how it sounds.

Harsh and piercing top on Kawai is only when you need it there - and each good concert grand sounds like this. Yes, CFX is not like that, but I generally dislike concert recording on CFX too, as they are lacking bite, which is needed in concert prepared instrument. You can't cut through orchestra and fill in 2000 seat hall with the treble proposed by Yamaha.

Kawai did this as concert instrument should be prepared, and good grand should bite when asked. Yamaha cannot bite no matter what, unless you buy some of their older stuff, which is biting you 100% on each key...

CyberGene

Khuja Wangtishvili so it's not about the amount, but it's about how it sounds

Didn’t I say it sounded like a bass guitar 😀 You should read full posts before replying to the first sentence you disagree with.

Khuja Wangtishvili Yes, CFX is not like that, but I generally dislike concert recording on CFX too, as they are lacking bite, which is needed in concert prepared instrument. You can't cut through orchestra and fill in 2000 seat hall with the treble proposed by Yamaha.

Yeah, nobody plays concerts on those crappy CFX-es.

Khuja Wangtishvili Kawai did this as concert instrument should be prepared

Yeah, because all Kawai DP owners have a concert hall at home.

Khuja Wangtishvili

CyberGene Yeah, nobody plays concerts on those crappy CFX-es.

People are playing because Yamaha is going everywhere with "suitcases with money", and proposing pianists all over the world to play on their pianos. They give highest discounts to educational institutions, therefore from young people are accustomed to play on Yamahas.

Getting pianist within a particular brand list is a very harsh and brutal business actually, and noone other has so much resources that can put into it as Yamaha. Steinway of course is selling itself just by their name.

I am not saying CFX is bad, it is just not giving me what I would like in terms of sound, but is has incredible touch actually.

CyberGene

Khuja Wangtishvili I must be in a minority then because I love how the CFX sounds without Yamaha paying me. Luckily, we have one in Sofia that’s often used in concerts and it sounds exactly to my taste. I understand you don’t like it and that’s perfectly fine, we all have different tastes. But I don’t think you agree that we all have different tastes 😀 You are more like: I don’t like the CFX, so nobody can like it, they can only be paid to like it.

I said why I don’t like Kawai DP-s. I’ve had three of them for a period of maybe 8-9 years. I’ve complained a lot about all these things on PW and hoped they will get fixed. After all I realized there are many people that actually love Kawai pianos the way they are. I accepted it and moved on.

Johnstaf

Khuja Wangtishvili Getting pianist within a particular brand list is a very harsh and brutal business actually, and noone other has so much resources that can put into it as Yamaha. Steinway of course is selling itself just by their name.

Steinway puts more resources into getting artists to play their pianos than any other company. It's the most controversial in the business. Yamaha doesn't get heavy-handed with endorsees if they step out of line.

SouthPark

It is kind of no good - actually tears not good - when this person has the shifty lateral keys thing happening on their brand new instrument.

LINK - Lateral Movement

Also ends in tears when in one part of Australia, a customer just wants their ES8 fixed, due to a clearly audible static noise occurring at power-up, and the customer is now banned from the servicing and anything else.

banned

Referring to : The rundown

David B

Pete14 Hmm, it seems like you’re quite familiar with Kawai’s “customer-service,” and I wonder, could it be because you were on the phone with them on a daily basis?

Believe me, I would have also bugged Yamaha's customer service if they would have offered any. 😀

God Bless,
David

SouthPark

True. I'm only slightly disappointed with yamaha, as it hasn't yet given me a need to open it up for servicing something. My fingers are just itchy to open up the yamaha to replace a worn or faulty part etc. I'm just saying ….. go ahead! Make my day!! But it's not giving an inch! But after having vented slightly, I better also say 'touch ….' you know what. NWX wood that is.