VSL Steinway vs Yamaha

nwu

I want to take advantage of the 40% educational discount going on over at VSL. I'm trying to decide between the VSL Steinway vs VSL CFX. Obviously, it really comes down to my own personal taste, but I did want to hear other people's thoughts and opinions.

I've read on many forums that Steinway has velocity mapping issues. Assuming you are able to get it dialed in where it isn't a factor, if you were to choose one which would you choose?

David B

The CFX was the first VSL library I purchased. I've since sold it but wish I hadn't. I currently own the Concert D and while it has a nice dynamic range I feel it's too cold and metallic sounding. I know that phrase is used a lot but that's the best way I can describe it. If I had to choose between the two it would be the CFX.

Currently my fav is the Fazioli F308. It really gets criticized on the ban happy forum but I have found it to be amazing. Here is my review of it.

https://youtu.be/GFlNtg2DSws?si=-ji165mBdS-uTjZt

God Bless,
David

johanibraaten

I while back I tried out all the VSL pianos and I ended up buying the CFX. When I listened to demos I actually liked the Steinway most. However, when I tried them out I found the Yamaha's playability superior to the others and it is a great match for my controller (Yamaha N1). The N1 together with the VSL CFX creates a really believable illusion to sit behind a real Yamaha grand piano. The CFX is sampled in a different way than the other VSL pianos. Instead of using their in house sampling robot to trigger the notes the've used the built in Disklavier system of the CFX. I don't know but maybe that's why the velocity mapping feels so natural on the Yamaha N1 since their sensor technology are kind of from the same generation and shares some technologies (not trying to imply any other similarities between the N1 and the CFX😊).

However, the VSL CFX isn't without flaws. The most prominent is that the tuning isn't that great. The highest E flat and E is seriously out of tune and there are other tuning problems too throughout the piano, especially in the higher velocity layers. With that said, it's not worse than many acoustic pianos that one still would consider nice to play.

pianow

johanibraaten hi there

i know this is old as F but i'm interested… what do you actually mean by "out of tune"?

i mean they have a "per note tuning thing" now.. if it's out of tune completely you can tune it easily

but if you're saying all of the 3 strings are not tuned the same that'll be a unsolvable problem

David Lai

Echoing what johanibraaten said about the tuning on the CFX. I've heard demos where the same note on different velocities have different tunings, which sounds really funny.

Another problem you might want to think twice about is that the VSL pianos (no matter what you choose) do not have una corda samples when you press the left pedal (CC 67) down. If you are a classical player, you will have to make a decision as to whether or not you think this is a deal breaker. I've stopped using VSL pianos because of this, and I wish I had sold my VSL Steinway…

David B

David Lai and I wish I had sold my VSL Steinway…

I've had success selling some VSL libraries at like 50% discount. You actually get less than 50% because VSL charges for the license transfer. If you really want to recoup some of the cost you might try advertising on PW. Whoever buys it gets a license from VSL and the same support as if they bought it directly from VSL.

God bless,
David

nhanzero

After trying all of their pianos, my favourite is still CFX, and when I need a mellow sound, I call up the Bosendofer Upright! The bright sounds match my 515 internal CFX and the playability is awesome!

Johnstaf

Vienna Imperial is my favourite piano library. It has una corda samples, and while it doesn't have half-pedalling, it has good repedalling. It has its quirks, such as a couple of notes going out of tune when pedalled, but it's still the most realistic I've ever used. The Synchron Libraries have too many compromises to allow for all the different (and pointless IMHO) mic positions.

jdg78

I've tried all of the VSL pianos and currently own all of the grands with the exception of the Fazioli which I didn't really care for. While they all have their particular strengths and characteristics, I think the CFX is probably the most well-rounded overall. The Steinway is also really nice, particularly in the softer velocities where it really excels, but it's also a bit fussier in terms of playability and getting the settings just right, whereas the CFX is a bit more forgiving in this regard. So if the choice was between these 2, I'd probably go for the CFX, but they are both great instruments.

I do really hope that they'll eventually record another modern grand on the smaller B stage, however. I recently got the Bosendorfer 280VC, and while it might not be my favorite piano from a tonal standpoint (though it is quite nice), I have to say that the more intimate recording venue really pays benefits in terms of clarity, presence and creating that "instrument is in the room with you" impression. Same with the Bluthner.

nwu

jdg78 CraigNZ
Interesting that both of you made note of the 280VC. I actually have that one. I had only really intended to get one VSL piano, which was supposed to be the 280C. However, I learned a repertoire piece and I found the 280VC upper registers way too harsh sounding, made me grimace whenever I played notes in the upper octaves. However, 280VC is so incredibly clear. It has such a sharpness and clarity about it that I play all my scales and drills on it because you can hear each note so clearly, so I've kept my 280VC for that very reason as a daily practice piano.
However, I want to buy a second VSL grand for me to record my repertoire pieces when they are ready. Since the VSL CFX is so well loved, I'm curious if you had ever used the Garritan CFX and what you thought of it. Which one of the CFXs did you prefer?

CraigNZ

I have (gulp) all the VSL Synchron pianos. The CFX is my favourite by a long shot. The Bosendorfer 280VC takes second place of the big grands.

Both uprights are great, especially the Bosendorfer.

jdg78

nwu Since the VSL CFX is so well loved, I'm curious if you had ever used the Garritan CFX and what you thought of it. Which one of the CFXs did you prefer?

Yes, I also have the Garritan CFX. The Garritan has really exceptional playability - maybe the most realistic of any virtual piano I've tried. But I've never really been a huge fan of the recorded sound of the instrument itself, which for whatever reason comes off as a bit sterile and lifeless to me.

I find that the VSL CFX has more presence, bite, and tonal variation, and greater possibilities for customizing the sound via mic mixes. It also has excellent playability, so on balance I prefer it over the Garritan

I would never get rid of the Garritan, however, as it's something of a reference for great playability in a sampled piano.

I agree with you about the 280VC, by the way - it can be a bit harsh on the top end, and certainly doesn't have the lushness and color of some other instruments, but it's so clear, crisp and well defined that I find it very useful for practicing. You simply can't "fudge over" anything, so it helps sharpen your articulation.

johanibraaten

pianow what do you actually mean by "out of tune"?

i mean they have a "per note tuning thing" now.. if it's out of tune completely you can tune it easily

but if you're saying all of the 3 strings are not tuned the same that'll be a unsolvable problem

Hi pianow.

It's more like the latter, i.e. the three strings of the same notes are not unison tuned. This is most noticeable on the highest E flat and E in the softer velocity layers, when you hit the higher velocity layers those notes becomes more in tune. There are also some notes in the midrange that gets out of tune when you hit the higher velocity layers but are better tuned in the softer layers. So you can't really fix this with the tuning function in the Synchron player. I while ago I contacted VSL about this and asked if there were any plans for an update to issue these problems and they said that there currently were no such plans. They also said that the CFX has been sampled with the built in Disklavier system to trigger the notes and the the highest dynamic levels are quite extreme so therefor "a slight detune effect is normal" on the CFX. That doesn't explain the detune of the highest E and E flat though.

With that said I still think the VSL CFX is absolutely stunning and I haven't yet tried any other software or hardware digital piano that gives me that kind of convincing illusion of playing a real acoustic (Yamaha) grand piano. I highly recommend to get a demo license from VSL and try it out.

pianow

johanibraaten

thanks man (especially for the quick reply - dang.. you guys are so active)

that was a lot of helpful and valuable information buddy

so the main and real problem with this s.library are two notes (E and e,flat) and the other detune velocities in other registers aren't "THAT" noticeable and nasty (my understanding from your reply)

that's not a big deal for me at least

i really love the way that vsl cfx sounds… i just wanted to be sure

so i really appreciate your time and valuable input

jdg78

I would also affirm that the tuning issues with the VSL CFX are extremely minor and don’t in any way detract from the overall experience, in my opinion. To me it’s really only noticeable in the uppermost E and E-flat that rarely get played in typical repertoire anyway, and even then they are only very slightly off tune.

I’ve played several highly regarded VSTs with much more noticeable tuning issues (Walker D, Vienna Imperial), and compared to them to the CFX sounds pristine.

pianow

jdg78 thank your for your informative reply my dear