If youtube gives you lessons, no beginner can be considered self taught

Pianissimo

Ah, yes, I wanted also to start a thread about beginners afraid of learning "without a teacher".

In short, don't be afraid, before internet and youtube you could become a great self taught musician. Today you can't do it, because you will learn one way or the other from teachers on youtube 🤣 .

QuasiUnaFantasia

Well, it's actually true, isn't it? I am self-taught in that I don't have a teacher, nor do I want one. But that has not stopped me from consulting videos on YT on various issues, (But in the long tradition of self-teaching there has of course always been books, and videos are just the logical extension of books).

Incidentally, as has already been mentioned in another post here in CyberGeneWorld, there is a pattern in PW's ABF section, where the OP mentions not having a teacher, and a whole pack of hyenas then proceed to devour the OP because of this lack of a teacher. This utter lack of empathy, however well-meaning, is probably the most grating thing I observe in PW.

MBiG

I think that if you have enough ambition and commitment, it is basically no problem to learn an instrument such as the piano via youtube or the internet (up to a certain, individual, level).

However, this method obviously lacks feedback and (hopefully positive) pressure. Which is given by traditional learning with a private piano teacher or at a music school. Of course, you don't get feedback on the interpretation of a piece of music via YouTube.

Only your own audio/video recordings can help here. But for that you have to be very self-critical and especially the evaluation of the current performance always requires the perspective of an expert (teacher), which of course you cannot have yourself in principle.

In short, to a certain extent, certainly. Above a certain level, difficult/impossible.

With instruments where the tone production itself is a challenge (e.g. trumpet), I would not assume that self-study can be successful at all. Of course, there are exceptions here too......

QuasiUnaFantasia

I agree with much of the above, but I do think that anyone with a "good ear" for music can hear the quality of their own playing, in real-time. Not everyone has such an ability to an adequate extent, I presume.

Pianissimo

Nothing is impossible, most of us are hybrid, something in the middle between: having a teacher and self-taught. Another great thing is to learn from your friends who play better than you. And the best jazz/rock players are all mostly self taught.

CyberGene

I'm self-taught too. Well, formally I started with a teacher, a granny that taught me the basics of reading notes, counting, that was for a month. Then I went for 2 months with a teacher from the music school once a week and I wanted to study Bach but she said it was too difficult for me and she was right of course, so I tried a few things with her and that was it. No teachers afterwards. While I think a teacher could have fixed some things I still do wrong (I tend to curl my pinkie in the opposite direction of what is correct), I also believe that having a teacher might have bored me enough to abandon the piano. I really love that I've had the entire freedom to do whatever I like, even learning the first ballade of Chopin at a time I was not yet ready for it.

That being said, people are different and what works for one may not work for everybody. I have my deepest respect for teachers and I really believe that teachers are the proper way to learn piano. But I agree that on PW the notion that you can't learn piano without teachers is too extreme.

Pianissimo

CyberGene

Curlying your pinky the opposite way? You mean keeping it flat? It's not wrong at all, actually it's necessary when you need to stretch for difficult arpeggios. So don't worry, just keep practicing both way with the pinky: flat and curved.

Tyr

Self taught = no Teacher. Otherwise you could be only called self taught if you discovered everything by yourself without books, teachers or videos.

CyberGene

Tyr, well that's true to a degree. I wonder if I should call myself self-taught since I've had some teacher for a few months when I was a kid. The thing is, I consider this to be much more "self-taught" compared to someone who watches YouTube videos nowadays. Because at the time there was no Internet and no books for "self-learning the piano", so to have me started and learn what are notes, durations, measures, etc. and which one is where on the piano there was not other way than to ask somebody who knows that, i.e. a teacher 😀 Besides, after these 3 months with a teacher, the only thing I knew was that: how to read notes and count durations, as well as playing a few children pieces. From there on I was on my own and without YouTube or any instructions, just playing pieces from scores.

CyberGene

Pianissimo Curlying your pink the opposite way? You mean keeping it flat?

Not just flat, but even slightly curved the opposite way:

I think it has started with me stretching for wide intervals but it has grown into a full habit now. A few years ago somebody noticed it in a YouTube video and so, I started trying not to bend it this way when playing regular intervals that don't need it but I guess it's already too habituated…

Deleted

I started with self-teaching piano as a child, then had some piano lessons later, then I restarted with self-teaching as an adult and had some piano lessons later again. And now I'm teaching piano myself.

From my experience I can tell you: Self-teaching is best to be avoided.

CyberGene Not just flat, but even slightly curved the opposite way:

I think it has started with me stretching for wide intervals but it has grown into a full habit now. A few years ago somebody noticed it in a YouTube video and so, I started trying not to bend it this way when playing regular intervals that don't need it but I guess it's already too habituated…

One of my students did this with all fingers after they self-taught piano with one of those fancy apps during lockdown. Not turning up the instrument volume didn't help either. Thankfully we got this corrected within a few weeks - beside the usual things like bench height and seating position, which seemingly all beginners get wrong.

MBiG

@"Pianissimo"

@"QuasiUnaFantasia"

Of course, you are both also right. There are always people with a natural basic talent. When such a talent comes together with the corresponding possibilities (instrument available, etc.) and of course the corresponding intrinsic motivation, anything is possible. In my remarks I was thinking more of the average person, such as myself. 😂

A funny example of this is one of my sons. When he was about 5 years old we went on a trip to a dinosaur park. On that day there was a special exhibition about the Stone Age. Some palaeontologists were present and explained, especially to the children, what it was like back then. Also with the help of many reconstructed objects. After lunch, the little one really wanted to go to the Stone Age demonstration again. We stayed for a coffee in the restaurant, about 50 metres away. Suddenly we heard a natural horn sounding over the square, with an intensity like the horn of Helm's Deep. My wife and I looked at each other in amazement. The horn sounded again and again, so we became curious and went there. It was our boy who, to the amazement of all present, was blowing the horsemen of Rohan to battle. Although he had never held an instrument in his hands before....I of course also tried to blow the horn, if the little one can do it, it probably won't be that difficult. Of course, no reasonable sound came out of the horn. I don't want to say that the little one has a talent, but at least a certain affinity for wind instruments, which I don't have.

QuasiUnaFantasia

After seeing this picture, I now feel at ease again. I had imagined a pinky curled upwards while not touching the keys. 🤣

vagfilm

I am sure that many are able to find faults in the hand positions of Horowitz…

MBiG

vagfilm

Franz Mohr once said in an interview about Horowitz little finger. "...He (the finger) was always there when he (his owner) needed him. Seems like the little one had a life of its own.

(And I'm OT again.🤔)

nhanzero

I believe we are all self-taught in one way or another even with a teacher, you can only see them a few hours per week, so most of the time we are all alone in our own study of the piano. But without a good teacher or a good course serves as a guidance to know which problems to be looked out for saving time.

vagfilm

And I was the one that started tje Horowitz tangent…

Irmin

I had a classical education. 1'st lesson around 1977 or so. What I learn't is classical music good, pop and other music bad. See the notes play the notes. No improv, no play by ear no deviating what was written on the page. You learn piano and you go to competitions and earn certificates and medals.

Naturally I quit in my teens. The last several years have been great. I just wish I had learn't the skills I am picking up now(without a teacher) as a child, it would have been so much easier.

David B

The only instruction I've had is the couple piano courses I've purchased. I still feel like I'm self-taught because I have to figure everything out on my own from which piano courses to buy, how to practice and learn what is being taught. No dialogue with anyone, no one to correct me if I'm doing something wrong, etc. It's lonely learning by myself and it takes a tremendous amount of motivation to keep doing it. That's probably why I gravitate towards the forums. It provides an opportunity to engage with others in this common interest.

God Bless,
David

EB5AGV

David B I should say that you are a wonderful example of what can be accomplished with that approach. Congratulations! 👍🏻