Roland is on Patrol

David B

Yahaam, Ymaaha, Yamah... ehh, it really doesn't matter. 😎

HZPiano

But… What about the N1X…

We need a full report on these developments including a deep review and comparison between instruments -- with particular emphasis on their use as a piano MIDI controller.

On our desks by Monday morning the latest.

😉

johanibraaten

David B I just got back here after a summer brake just to face the most strange development- what on earth has happened with the N1X???😳😳😳

David B

HZPiano But… What about the N1X…

It's a secret. 😀

HZPiano with particular emphasis on their use as a piano MIDI controller.

I don't have to create a unique velocity curve with the Roland. The fine tuned touch sensitivity adjustment (0-100) enables me to reach 127 midi output with all my piano libraries while still allowing me to easily play < 30. It's actually too easy to play PP. I've got to get used to that.

God Bless,
David

kawafanboi

are you using those monitors? the spatial distortion would be very high being so far away from the piano.

David B

kawafanboi are you using those monitors? the spatial distortion would be very high being so far away from the piano.

The 60w internal speakers are fairly good on FP90X, but I have it setup to blend in the monitors if I like. It's adds to the quality of the sound especially when listening to music through both the piano speakers and monitors. I'm not aware of any spatial distortion. Maybe it's there but I don't recognize it. The monitors seem to improve the sound in whatever context I use them in.

jdg78 Wondering if you've tried routing the VSL pianos through the internal speakers and how they sound?

The onboard USB audio interface on the Roland makes that really easy. It sounds OK to my ears. Better if I blend in the monitors.

God Bless,
David

David B

kawafanboi are you using those monitors? the spatial distortion would be very high being so far away from the piano.

Taking your advise I decided to move the monitors closer to the piano and I think it does sound more comfortable with them closer. They are 4ft apart and 3.5ft to my ears.

Before and after.

I'm not sure if I was experiencing spacial distortion (I really don't even know what that is), but having them closer seems more natural. I'm going to keep them like this for awhile. Thanks for the suggestion.

God bless,
David

P.S. The 60w speakers on the FP90X are actually very nice and are the best slab speakers I've heard so far between the Kawais, Yamahas, and Rolands I've owned. The monitors aren't entirely necessary, but they do give a more powerful bass and pronounced highs. Getting the right blend with the Roland speakers is important.

Pete14

Go ahead, have your fun, for once the beast is released it’ll all go dark (@Roland)!😏

September will be a month to remember!

jdg78

Nice. I've been considering getting one of these (FP-90X) myself.

When I demoed a bunch of models last month, the Roland (somewhat to my surprise) struck me as having the most robust and best feeling action of all the slab models I tried, although there are still a couple more models I want to demo before pulling the trigger. I think I may have even preferred the FP-90X action to some of the higher-end actions on the Kawai CA series.

Nice to hear that the midi response is accurate as I'd be using this almost exclusively as a midi controller.

Wondering if you've tried routing the VSL pianos through the internal speakers and how they sound? Like you, I have a set of studio monitors which I assume will sound better than the internal speakers, but I'm also curious how the Roland speakers hold up on their own.

jdg78

David B The onboard USB audio interface on the Roland makes that really easy. It sounds OK to my ears. Better if I blend in the monitors.

Yeah, the built-in audio interface is another big selling point for me in favor of the Roland, and I'm also anticipating doing some kind of mix/blend between the studio monitors and on-board speakers.

So I'm glad to hear that you've had good results via this method.

SouthPark

David B The 60w speakers on the FP90X

Ok! That's it! The total manufacturer spec output is 50W! Not 60W. But even so. That's not fair. That's still significantly more than my DP.

On the other hand … it looks like it is total 60W. Even more unfair.

Some sites are giving out fake news on the 50W value. Total really is 60W.

HZPiano

David B decided to move the monitors closer to the piano and I think it does sound more comfortable with them closer

Good move!

Cheers and happy playing,

kawafanboi

David B

spatial distortion is caused by mismatch in the design intent of the stereo image separation.

there's nothing wrong with the speakers, but if they imaged it with the intention of having speakers at x-distance/ angle from you, by moving monitors way out, it feels like the sound is coming from the wrong place and either too early or too late as you move up and down the keybed.

this is different from broadcast to audience, where from their perspective it's a point source. from the player perspective, it's a 4 - 5 foot wide speaker that has dimension.

David B

SouthPark Ok! That's it! The total manufacturer spec output is 50W! Not 60W. But even so. That's not fair. That's still significantly more than my DP.

60w according to the specs.

2 twenty fives and 2 fives = 60.

God Bless,
David

SouthPark

David B That amount is definitely more than formidable. With my dp, I'm border line …. and sometimes need to wind it down a bit from max … as it can to hearing damaging level for strong notes. My dp is normally at max slider setting for the volume. The FP-90X has the loudness department fully covered. Very nice setup.

David B

kawafanboi from the player perspective, it's a 4 - 5 foot wide speaker that has dimension.

The piano is ~4ft wide. Does that mean the speakers shouldn't be wider than the piano?

SouthPark

kawafanboi this is different from broadcast to audience

True! Couldn't resist to put this one up again only hehehe

kawafanboi

David B

it depends on how the engineering department spaced their speakers.

you can have speakers 8 feet wide and have it sound like 4 feet wide.

David B

Something I've noticed now that I've been playing piano with my monitors close to the piano is that the sound is actually better with just the monitors by themselves. The FP90X speakers are good, plenty of power and strong bass, but no matter how I try to EQ them, they just don't have the detail and clarity that the KRK monitors have. Blending them with the close monitors just seems to muddy the sound.

FP90X speakers by themselves = good.
KRK monitors by themselves = Better.
Both blended together = worse than either one of the above by themselves.

God Bless,
David

Joannchr

David B all your observations are backed up by physic:

Looking at the picture and estimating the distance from the speakers (when they are far from the piano) at approximately 2 m then the latency is in the 5 ms region so if you have a usual latency from keyboard to audio output of 7-8 ms which is usual when using VST’s with midi controllers then your latency moves to the 12ms 13 ms zone which becomes noticeable from a performer standpoint . On top of that your perceived volume privant decreases by about 6db ( inversely proportional to the distance square) assuming that in the extreme position, the speaker are x2 more distant than in the close position , so for sure you are going to feel a difference .

The fact of the 4 speakers working together being the wise setup is presumably due to opposition of phase between the 2 set of speakers which creates in desirable effects .

Any away I’m sure you will enjoy your new piano .

kawafanboi

David B

if you have 2 sound sources. that adds wave interference. when mastered, that is taken into account by ear, but if you add 2 MORE sound sources, you have additional ripples of constructive/destructive nodes.

while it's true that a real piano has all sorts of interference, from a reproduction standpoint, they're recorded and mastered as if they were stereo point sources. which is why they should definitively stop putting speakers inside piano cabinets, this is stupid and wrong.

a piano is the combination of cabinet and harp, if you want to put speakers inside a box, you'd have to be able to record the harp without its cabinet influence, WHICH, is impossible. after the fact, you'd also have to then reproduce the cabinet characteristics with a completely different cabinet.

Pete14

P-515 speakers by themselves: great!😁

David B

Pete14 P-515 speakers by themselves: great!😁

I miss my N1X speakers. There was something about the combo and direction that made them great for playing sampled libraries through.

God bless,
David

Pete14

David B I miss my N1X speakers.

What have you done, David?

HZPiano

David B I miss my N1X speakers

We still need that full, detailed, in-depth report on the recent events and state of affairs in this whole matter.

A tip: Consider another pair of the same, or as similar as it gets, monitors and place them underneath the piano. Preferably, the volumes of the upper pair should be adjustable independently of the lower pair (and vice versa), the lower pair should have a little more volume.

For inspiration, go back to the Modern U thread that you once started and review my notes on my Modern U and speaker/amplifier setup.

I never changed anything since and am still tickled pink with the whole setup.

Cheers and happy inspiration,

PS Mind that the full report is overdue by now… 😉